Trouble Using the Focus Guide!

[HarleyTusk]

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Im a new Leica enthusiast, I just got a M10-p with a 35mm Summilux f1.4 Lens.

Im having trouble focusing. The focus indicator rectangle in the center of the viewfinder doesn't seem to work very consistently. It goes in & out, its blurry & difficult to tell if the images are aligned.

Is there any alternatives to the focus guide that I can use?

Would the Visoflex Typ 020 viewfinder help with precise focusing?

Any and all suggestions/ moments are appriciated.

Thank you!

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[jaapv]

From the M FAQ: This has been up for a decade.

Quote

The M works the same way as any rangefinder camera, the central patch in the viewfinder is your focusing tool.

It is important to look through the viewfinder in the optical axis. Looking into the camera skewed will result in inaccurate focus.

 

The first thing to do is to ascertain that you can see the rangefinder patch properly. A correct match between the rangefinder and your eye is even more important than it is using an SLR.

Leica sells corrective diopter lenses. Determining which one you need - if any- can be done by going to your optician and holding his try-out lenses between your eye and the viewfinder. The one that allows you to see the rangefinder patch and framelines sharply is the correct one. Order the nearest value from Leica. In a pinch you can use over-the-counter reading glasses for this test. If your eyes need special corrections, you can use your spectacles, provided you can see clearly at 2 metres distance ( the virtual distance of the rangefinder patch). Note that the background will be at background distance,so your eye should ideally be able to accomodate over the distance differential. However, there is some tolerance here.

 

For special cases there are viewfinder magnifiers. They can help, especially with longer and fast lenses and they can give confidence, but they can also be not very useful; they cannot correct errors in the focusing mechanism or your eye, in fact they magnify them.

Also, one loses contrast and brightness.

Leica offers a 1.25x one and a 1.4x. These need diopter correction like the camera, but often of a different value than the camera viewfinder.

 

There are also third-party magnifiers, sold by Japan Exposures, that include a variable diopter correction. 1.15x and 1.35x. For patent reasons they cannot be sold in the USA and Germany for use on a Leica camera, but they can be purchased for use on for instance a rifle scope.

Basically, for an experienced user, magnifiers are not needed and will only lower contrast and brightness, but many users do like and use them.

 

Once the viewfinder is corrected optimally, there are three methods of focusing, in ascending order of difficulty aka training.

 

1. The broken line method. Look for a vertical line in the image and bring it together in the rangefinder patch to be continuous.

 

2. The coincidence method. Look for a pattern in the image and bring it together to coincide. This may lead to errors with repeating patterns.

 

3. The contrast method. Once you have focus by method 1. or 2. a small adjustment will cause the rangefinder patch to "jump" into optimum contrast. At that point you have the most precise focussing adjustment.

 

Side remarks:

 

If you try focusing on a subject emitting polarized light like a reflection it may happen that the polarizing effect of the prism system in the rangefinder will blot out the contrast in the rangefinder patch, making focusing difficult. In that case rotate the camera 90 degrees to focus.

 

[jdlaing]

Sounds like it may be time to look for a diopter.

[AndreasG]

I think it is easiest to exercise according the a.m. "broken line" method - take a vertical line, a doorframe, window frame etc. and simply try.

[dkmoore]

The viewfinder doesn't go in and out and in and out of blurriness. 

If the rangefinder isn't making sense, the user isn't going to be successful with the EVF020.

I highly recommend going to the closest Leica store for one of their classes geared toward your specific camera or go to your local trusted camera store and ask them to help you. I think you may just not be understanding how it all works.

I find a Leica M camera MORE intuitive than any auto everything camera. 

Don't give up though as using the Leica M cameras is VERY rewarding. Welcome to the Leica team and I know you will get this worked out.

[hteasley]

Do you wear glasses? They can affect your view of the rangefinder, as they increase your distance from it, and you can end up looking at it slightly off-center.

But it might be out of alignment. They have a bunch of moving parts, so alignment can be an issue over time, or after a bad knock.

[erniethemilk]

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I would check the rangefinder is in alignment as suggested. 

 

For or what it's worth, as a newbie to an M10P myself it's taken me close to 3 months to get used to getting critical focus with mines and I'm still slow to manage it at times.  For sure it's quite a learning curve, but I'm starting to see the benefits and for sure keep at it, it will come!

[otto.f]

Is this your first M? Because it is hard to conceive that a rangefinder would be blurry, goes in and out, etc. You could have difficulties with a white moving gauze against a snowy background or with striped wallpaper, but otherwise... And especially the M10, it has the best rangefinder also for people with glasses; it would be quite strange of the mirror inside the rangefinder is wobbling.

Edited November 23, 2019 by otto.f

[250swb]

First, don't be concerned by the idea it may be 'out of alignment', it's not fair to worry you as a new user by suggesting a fault and there are far more obvious considerations before going down that path.

You say the focus rectangle goes 'in and out', do you mean it appears and disappears? If so take your finger from in front of the small window on the front of the camera, it's a common thing for beginners to spread their fingers around and accidentally cover this window which is part of the rangefinder mechanism.

If you wear glasses centering your eye on the focus rectangle is important and takes a but more practice than otherwise, and also if you use varifocals finding the right part to look through is another consideration. You may find a dioptre lens the answer but this means you need to take your glasses off each time you want to focus.

Another thing that can stop the rangefinder patches moving (at all) is if you've kept your finger on the lens release button as you mount the lens. This can stop the lens locking into place properly with a metallic click. 

Getting the patches to align should be easy and soon becomes second nature, it doesn't take long for critical focus to become as obvious as a light switch, it's either 'on' or 'off'. But what can take time to adapt to is deciding on exactly what to focus on, hard vertical edges are the best, and you don't need to focus on the exact thing you want to photograph, just something that is easy to focus on at the sane distance, so focus and then re-compose the picture. So for example look for contrasty edges within the frame and try not to focus on the folds of curtains or clothing. For portraits you still need to focus on an eye, but this is usually fairly easy. 

[HarleyTusk]

Thank you for taking the time to reply! It was very helpful information!

[andyturk]

I've been shooting Ms for years, but my M10s "viewfinder doesn't seem to work very consistently" either.

The effect is most apparent if I try to focus on the LED digits of an electronic clock or microwave oven. Depending on how I orient my head/eye behind the viewfinder, the image is either tack sharp or vertically smeared slightly. Sometimes I focus with a smeared view, move my head a little, and then see a very sharp and aligned rangefinder patch.

I'm hesitant to blame the camera for this because my aging eyes do all sorts of strange things. And I do have extensive experience with a rangefinder that went out of vertical adjustment at the drop of a hat (Epson R-D1) but that *was* due to sloppy mechanics inside the camera.

IMO, the M10 viewfinder design can occasionally be less than perfectly clear in the patch, but it's rarely causes me to miss focus. Focusing is done by aligning the rangefinder patch horizontally (using vertical edges). So when the smearing effect is perpendicular to that axis, it doesn't necessarily lead to focusing at the wrong distance.

[PCPix]

Thumbprints on the rangefinder (smaller) window on the front of the camera? Any time I’m having difficulty focusing with the rangefinder first thing I do is check that the two front windows are clean often they are not 😉

 

[mujk]

On 11/23/2019 at 4:50 PM, andyturk said:

I've been shooting Ms for years, but my M10s "viewfinder doesn't seem to work very consistently" either.

The effect is most apparent if I try to focus on the LED digits of an electronic clock or microwave oven. Depending on how I orient my head/eye behind the viewfinder, the image is either tack sharp or vertically smeared slightly. Sometimes I focus with a smeared view, move my head a little, and then see a very sharp and aligned rangefinder patch.

I'm hesitant to blame the camera for this because my aging eyes do all sorts of strange things. And I do have extensive experience with a rangefinder that went out of vertical adjustment at the drop of a hat (Epson R-D1) but that *was* due to sloppy mechanics inside the camera.

IMO, the M10 viewfinder design can occasionally be less than perfectly clear in the patch, but it's rarely causes me to miss focus. Focusing is done by aligning the rangefinder patch horizontally (using vertical edges). So when the smearing effect is perpendicular to that axis, it doesn't necessarily lead to focusing at the wrong distance.

I have noticed the same, but only with some types of subjects. I don't think it's due to vertical misalignment of the rangefinder, because I see the same effect on my M9 and moving the eye slightly will fix it. I wear glasses, and that may be part of the problem.

[kegon]

Did not read it all, so sorry, if already mentioned... Watch your fingers, seems like you partly cover the little window for the focus guide at times

Edited November 27, 2019 by kegon

[jaapv]

3 hours ago, mujk said:

I have noticed the same, but only with some types of subjects. I don't think it's due to vertical misalignment of the rangefinder, because I see the same effect on my M9 and moving the eye slightly will fix it. I wear glasses, and that may be part of the problem.

Astigmatism? That will cause such effects.

[250swb]

On 11/23/2019 at 2:50 PM, andyturk said:

 

The effect is most apparent if I try to focus on the LED digits of an electronic clock or microwave oven.

Good grief, is this a thing, photographing your microwave oven? I'm obviously out of step with photographic trends, but perhaps consider the way LED's work before blaming the camera.

[andyturk]

17 minutes ago, 250swb said:

Good grief, is this a thing, photographing your microwave oven? I'm obviously out of step with photographic trends, but perhaps consider the way LED's work before blaming the camera.

You'll be pleased to know that I don't actually press the shutter button while pointing the camera at the microwave.

I don't blame my M10 for the blurry digits (and said as much in my post).

[Jeff S]

On 11/23/2019 at 3:17 AM, 250swb said:

You may find a dioptre lens the answer but this means you need to take your glasses off each time you want to focus.

 

I use both an diopter (+.5) and my glasses (astigmatism and distance correction) concurrently.  As Rick, the eye doc, used to note here, this is common with aging eyes, particularly given the -.5 correction built into the VF.  Easy enough for anyone to test at a dealer or with any optician that has free trial diopters. As Jaap notes, it’s especially important to correct for astigmatism first for best RF experience.  And with the M10, centering one’s eye is even more important.

But I’m guessing the OP’s issue comes down to the point you and others make: keep the small RF window clean (carry a small microfiber cloth) and keep fingers away.

Jeff

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