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Leica SL2 and flash


caissa
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2 hours ago, kuau said:

Well I finally got my Nissin MG10 and a Leica SF C1,

I updated the firmware on the MG10 to ver .7

I have the SF C1 properly paired with the MG10

Couple questions is there a newer firmware for the SF C1?

I have the SF C1 on my SL 2 and all seems to be working I have my SL 2 in M mode and the SF C1 in TTL this seems to work though I can't get the Auto Zoom to work on the flash. I have it set to "A" on the SF C1 yet when I zoom in and out it does nothing. I can manual adjust the zoom of the MG 10 using the SF C1 controller though.  I have no idea if this even is supposed to work.

 

Not all functions on the MG10 work due to the Leica SFC1 commander. The trigger button cannot work for sure. 
I have no experience with the zoom head as I only use all my flashes as off camera flashes with light modifiers.

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FlashGordonPhotography

Unlikely as the pins are in completely different places. Would need an adaptor. Someone just needs to convince Leica to stop trying to sell flash guns (which are ALWAYS half arsed) and just open the protocols to Godox, Elinchrom,  Nissin and Profoto. What they'd lose in flash sales they'd more than make up in system sales. Many studio shooters wouldn't even consider an SL unless a properly compatible trigger is available. It's fine for old farts like me who almost exclusively work with manu

nryn

I just finished a 4-day shoot for a book with an SL2, SF C1 and 3 flashes: an SF 60 and two MG-10s. I have wanted for some time to get away from bringing my huge strobes everywhere. A few notes: The MG-10s are excellent flashes and work well with the SF C1 and SL2. As reported in this thread and elsewhere, the SL2 has some hiccups when using with a flash: I couldn't get the flashes to fire consistently in A or S modes, nor could I figure out the conditions under which they ei

nryn

I completely agree (with the caveat that some indoor settings can have even greater light variability). This shoot was entirely indoors and lighting was largely used to counter strong natural light coming from east-facing windows). Not only was TTL giving me poor results (it has on other lighting systems and may just be a matter of "getting to know" the peculiarities of lighting with the SL2, but I didn't want to do that during a shoot), the intermittent firing in some exposure modes made me swi

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I just got the SL2 3 days ago from the Leica Store @Wetzlar and when I tried to use my SF64, it sometimes fire and sometimes it doesn’t. 
After trying out a few scenarios, I realise that when it is bright, the flash will not fire at all.  It seems there is no manual override to force the SF64 to fire.  It’s behaving like a compact camera and it should not behave like that.  
 

Does anybody have the same issues with the SL2 and SF64? 

Edited by fotonutzz
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On 1/4/2020 at 12:39 AM, caissa said:

What I don't understand: The company priolite offers a perfect flash system for Leica (transmitter and everything since more than a year). They are not cheap, but cheaper than profoto for example. Still hardly anybody buys them. I have tried it and they work perfectly (robust and easy to setup). (But I use flash rarely, so I did not buy any flash system. This is probably typical for many Leica users). Rather people keep on complaining and asking for the impossible (a change in strategy). Even if all this happens, a solution along that road will come earliest in a few years.

So I simply think people have no real problem.  The solution is there, but hardly anybody uses it. Just this endless list of complaints.  Ridiculous.
If you have a real problem, open a self-help group and together buy one priolite set and test it in depth. Then you will know in a few days if it offers what you need or if you have to wait another year or two for something else.

If you can afford one of the new noctiluxes, then the priolite set is just a fraction of this.

(The priolite system actually works with almost any camera brand, so even if you go away from Leica, there is no danger to be stranded with unusabe stuff. Unlike the Leica flashes, that nobody but Leica can use). I was surprised when they announced that they will offer a Leica transmitter (about 2 years ago), because it was only for a small potential user group. And now I have the impression, it was maybe a bad decision (I wonder how many (or probably few) transmitters for Leica they sold in the last two years).

When I tried to order Priolite some time ago, the battery strobe I tried to order was out of stock. May have been a coincidence but it made me change my mind. Furthermore, buying strobes is not necessarily a one-off decision - you are more likely buying into a system, depending on your needs and use. Priolite use the Bowens bayonet which is of course quite wide-spread, despite Bowens going bankrupt a year or two ago. But if you look at the Profoto system, you get a lot of interesting strobes and modifiers for all sorts of uses, both new, second hand or in rental shops. Work in a studio, with assistants? Rent or buy a power pack (D4 Air can be bought very reasonably second hand on eBay). Or get a couple of D2 monoblocks with great power and speed. Have a location shoot planned, without assistants, or your shoot is of the "run and gun" variety? Pack a couple of B10s (or A1s) with some umbrellas and lightweight OCF modifiers (the B10s are smaller than many lenses, still providing 250ws of power). Want to use a big pro ring flash? No problem (got mine from eBay for approx. 400 Eur). So, in the end, while the Priolite is a nice system that can work with a lot of Bowens-type modifiers, it is the big brands (Profoto, Elinchrom, Broncolor) that provide much wider system options for the avid strobe user. Meanwhile, Godox provide the cheaper solutions with the fastest developing feature sets and innovations (the AD200 mini strobes for example are rightly very popular). Markus Klinko has been a big advocate of Godox; I find his occasional write-ups on various blog sites quite useful.  I have talked to Leica, Profoto and Elinchrom regarding support - everybody just says "we are constantly improving our products but we cannot say if and when, blah, blah, blah". I have suggested here and to Leica several times to adopt the Nikon protocol (like Hasselblad has done) given that their hotshoe is physically the same. I have given up hope. It is almost like some sort of subversion at Leica: we don't care that there is a Profoto and Elinchrom system trigger for every other camera system out there (even Pentax nowadays...). Buy a Leica S with a bunch of CS lenses if you want to sync your strobes at fast shutters speeds. 

And one more thing to set the record straight here: Some users have mentioned in this thread that trigger X or Y works fine with their Leica. In each case, these are the "dumb" radio triggers that will work with nearly every camera out there. There is no reason to advertise that "my Elinchrom Skyport Plus / Profoto Air Sync or Connect works fine with my Leica SL and I don't complain". Of course it works - at any speed up to the camera's max sync speed (more or less). So no problem if you shoot in a darkened studio or anywhere with relatively low ambient light level. These "dumb" triggers work like that with every camera ever produced that has a standard hotshoe. Even with cameras that have no hotshoe at all, just an X sync contact, if you connect the short cable provided with the trigger. What we are talking about is being able to sync at shorter sync speeds, beyond the camera's max sync speed, i.e. HS or HSS mode, depending on the strobe manufacturer. The purpose is to manage ambient exposure on location, outside of a darkened studio, without having to stop the lens down a lot or without using ND filters. Leica S users with CS lenses, or Leica Q users, can of course sync at much faster speeds (1/1000s and 1/2000s, respectively) with even with the "dumb" triggers - this is a feature of the leaf shutters used in their lenses. But with cameras with focal plane shutters (like the SL) this is possible only with dedicated, "intelligent" air triggers, that communicate with the camera body and switch into the HS/HSS mode automatically, whenever the shutter speed set exceeds the camera's max sync speed.  In the ideal world, we would also be able to use TTL - which may be useful to some and not so useful to others. In the Profoto system, these are called Air-TTL triggers, in the Elinchrom world, they are the Transmitter Pro triggers, and for Broncolor, they are the RFS 2.2 triggers. This is what we are asking Leica and the strobe guys to offer us.

Edited by albireo_double
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I am equally frustrated that there is no third party strobe/flash maker supporting Leica camera equipment apart from Prolite strobes. I was warned by this forum moderator for sounding too negative on Leica in this subject in the past.

I do recognize the limited numbers of camera and users from Leica interested in third party strobe/flashes as most are either without one or simply figuring how to mount one on their Leica camera so no surprise that no third party strobe/flash supplier will be keen to develop a dedicated flash protocol for Leica cameras unless Leica works in partnership with them (Metz & Nissin digital) on a 'Leica badge' flash that sells for double the price of a standard Nissin equivalent to make up for the low volume.

Moving forward, only solution if for Leica to either adopt the Hassy way to follow the Nikon flash protocol or to join the L-mount Panasonic in flash Protocol to make up in numbers to attract 3rd party lighting suppliers. 

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The Priolite website is not perfect, so probably most readers have not seen all the infos available.
Here a video, where the owner/founder of Priolite explains the usage of his strobe system. Only in German.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=680&v=gcpDfBjFSUc&feature=emb_logo
And a video example filmed with the help of this technology.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWsXMUeKx-I&feature=emb_logo   (Sorry, in Austrian dialect, so even for german speakers difficult to understand. And a lot of noise, best to turn down the sound.) It is already from 2013, so the equipment is now a bit smaller. A generator plus small head is usually the most flexible solution for outdoor.

I don't know how availability is internationally. But in Germany and Austria the strobes seem to be available through the shop,  https://www.prioliteshop.com/blitzgeräte/priolite-mbx500-hot-sync-ultra/

Edited by caissa
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/9/2019 at 9:58 AM, nryn said:

I just finished a 4-day shoot for a book with an SL2, SF C1 and 3 flashes: an SF 60 and two MG-10s. I have wanted for some time to get away from bringing my huge strobes everywhere. A few notes:

  • The MG-10s are excellent flashes and work well with the SF C1 and SL2.
  • As reported in this thread and elsewhere, the SL2 has some hiccups when using with a flash:
    • I couldn't get the flashes to fire consistently in A or S modes, nor could I figure out the conditions under which they either would or would not fire. It wasn't sync speed, TTL vs. M, or anything like that. It just seemed random, both in my testing before the shoot and whenever I tried to use A or S during the shoot. It wasn't a big deal--I usually expose manually when using flash anyway. But it's strange and I suspect it's a bug. 
    • HSS only works in TTL.
    • I don't find TTL on the SL2 very good. Shooting from the same location, same exposure, same ambient light--I got exposures all over the place. Like with exposure mode on the camera, I went to manual on the flashes as well.
  • The SF C1 is a nice piece of kit. I've used a number of remote triggers such as this, which allow you to control individual flash output independently, and I found this controller intuitive and slick. I like that it is low-profile and well-made.
  • The SF 60 is OK; I ended up using it occasionally as a bounce flash to remove shadows and relied on the MG-10s for primary flash (to counter some strong sunlight from windows).

Pretty happy with the results and extremely happy with the portability of this lighting kit. I don't think the Einsteins will come out of the drawer very often anymore.

Do you hv problems with the SF60? My SF64 fires off intermittently.  When the camera "feels" that there is sufficient light, the flash will not fire at all.  This rules out fill-in flash during the daytime when I’m outdoors.  The only recourse is to set the camera to M and the flash will fire.  Setting it to P, A or S, it acts like a compact camera and won’t fire the flash when there’s sufficient light....very frustrating.  Hope Leica will hv a firmware update to fix this bug fast!

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1 hour ago, fotonutzz said:

Do you hv problems with the SF60? My SF64 fires off intermittently.  When the camera "feels" that there is sufficient light, the flash will not fire at all.  This rules out fill-in flash during the daytime when I’m outdoors.  The only recourse is to set the camera to M and the flash will fire.  Setting it to P, A or S, it acts like a compact camera and won’t fire the flash when there’s sufficient light....very frustrating.  Hope Leica will hv a firmware update to fix this bug fast!

My experience with SF60s are such that they do not fire and shut down after they overheat (too high frequency usage that cause the SF60 to overheat). No encounter with not firing due to daylight.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/30/2020 at 5:33 PM, Exodies said:

The one called Air Remote, not Air Remote TTL.

So the Air Remote TTL will not work? I quickly tried it in manual mode, it did work though when I turn on the air remote til Nikon on my SL2 the LCD/EFV turns on and off. Any ideas or this is not going to work

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On ‎2‎/‎10‎/‎2020 at 12:38 AM, Jon Warwick said:

Is there a list of which Leica flashes will deploy all functionality on the SL2? For example, I have an SF 24D flash - where can I find out if that flash is fully compatible or not?

I've 2 of them. No problem but mind camera in A Mode because of mix with low ambient light and double exposures. I use them with camera in M Mode with TTL, A Flash auto-exposure (introducing aperture value) and of course M flash mode.

Also you can use external remote light triggers + Auto flash exposure mode to have semi-automatic  off-flash small studio,  mainly for Macro Photography.

 

Francisco

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On 1/30/2020 at 6:55 AM, sillbeers15 said:

My experience with SF60s are such that they do not fire and shut down after they overheat (too high frequency usage that cause the SF60 to overheat). No encounter with not firing due to daylight.

Overheating has been NISSIN trademark, I had 3 of there flashes and they all had one problem or another. I don't know why Leica went with them... 
SF64 looks like it is made by METZ another small German company, they use the be big in the 80-90s

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10 hours ago, Photoworks said:

Overheating has been NISSIN trademark, I had 3 of there flashes and they all had one problem or another. I don't know why Leica went with them... 
SF64 looks like it is made by METZ another small German company, they use the be big in the 80-90s

However the Nissin MG10 recycles really fast, especially with the optional Lithium battery. There is no overheating problem experienced and supports heavy duty usage. It is also very well built unlike SF60 & SF40 (typical consumer grade product).

I would rate the MG10 as one of the best strobe below 200ws.

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17 hours ago, FMB said:

I miss a Leica SF 40 integrated with SF C1. Or i40 Nissin with software V5 :o

Francisco.

Can’t do that for SF40/i40 as it is not NAS compatible. It cannot be triggered via wireless remote AIr10/SFC1. But can be triggered via manual wireless triggers.

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