differences between Summicron 35 "king of bokeh" and Summicron ASPH

[lawman]

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On 12/27/2019 at 5:17 PM, a.noctilux said:

Don't worry Lct, your copy is not "plastic inside", if 156g is without cap or hood, that is the "good one" in my experiences.

In last decades, I had in my hand maybe dozen of Summicron 35mm IV, old aborted project to make kind of statistics of renderings.

Those were Wetzlar or Canada made , as I've found and the best ways to find out which " plastic" which "non plastic" :

- at front the ring is larger and colored in "brownish plastic" that one is "plastic inside",

Lct your copy is "solid" metallic front ring with serial number and E39 is one of the non-plastic unit

compare also the 2 slots for tools in this front ring

- second evidence weight : 130-135g = "plastic inside" and my non plastic units weight 150-155g

 

"Plastic-inside" looks like this one

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No plastic inside, Germany (one that I sold some time ago)

 

My lens 2975xxx weighs 130 g without any caps or hood - Canada made - so definitely the dreaded plastic?

[Sergius]

1 hour ago, lawman said:

My lens 2975xxx weighs 130 g without any caps or hood - Canada made - so definitely the dreaded plastic?

Yes. But It’s no drama. You have to be more careful because is more delicate. 

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[Sergius]

3 hours ago, Ray Vonn said:

I know most people don't but I actually love that bokeh, it's unlike that of other lenses I've used and that's why I love my copy of the v4.  I'd like to know whether other lenses have that same characteristic.

1) 35 summilux pre asph: less sharp but more poetic and magical 

2) 28 elmarit IV version : stunning lens but a little sharper than 35 IV. 
 

ps: don’t forget any summicron 50 non asph. A very milestone for Leica and for optic in general. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Sergius

[Ray Vonn]

1 hour ago, Sergius said:

1) 35 summilux pre asph: less sharp but more poetic and magical 

2) 28 elmarit IV version : stunning lens but a little sharper than 35 IV. 
 

ps: don’t forget any summicron 50 non asph. A very milestone for Leica and for optic in general. 

Really appreciate that, thanks.

[lct]

8 hours ago, Ray Vonn said:

I know most people don't but I actually love that bokeh, it's unlike that of other lenses I've used and that's why I love my copy of the v4.  I'd like to know whether other lenses have that same characteristic.

Difficult to say as this is a subjective matter and some lenses have soft bokeh at full aperture but less so at smaller ones or vice versa. If you mean at f/2, the bokeh of the 35/2 v4 is a bit sharp ("busy") but not to the point of appearing in focus contrary to lenses showing sharp bokeh balls for example. Adan's pics above are good examples in B&W or the ones below in color (German made 35/2 v4 at f/2 on digital CL). To retrieve a similar rendition at f/2 on other 35mm lenses i would think of the Summilux 35/1.4 FLE or the latest Ultron 35/2 but i'm pretty sure one would see significant differences when comparing them side by side if they are brave enough to do so.

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[adan]

I agree exactly with sergius above, except to add the 28 Elmarits II and III, but also point out that the wider DoF and smaller f/2.8 apertures make any "bokeh" from a 28mm less - expansive.

One has to shoot at close to 0.7m distance, and f/2.8, to see it much.

Pretty much any older double-gauss rangefinder 35mm lens (e.g. Nikkors and Canon Serenars) will do the same, to some extent. As well as the Voigtlander 35 f/1.4 - another close cousin to the Leica pre-ASPH 35 designs.

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

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I've owned them both over the years, but own neither now.  The Aspherical model is bigger, heavier, and a lot of folks nearly revolted when it first came out.  The 4th version is probably better for B&W, and the Aspherical model for color film.  If  you shoot a digital camera, there's probably less of a difference.  All digital B&W looks similar to me, but I'm not expert with digital imaging.  If you're interested in the crisp, modern look, an excellent alternative in a very small package is the new Voightlander 35mm f/2 Ultron Aspherical.  It reminds me of the Aspherical Summicron.  As always, all these lenses are very good, and can't replace light and composition if not there.  No lens can.  

[Ray Vonn]

6 hours ago, adan said:

I agree exactly with sergius above, except to add the 28 Elmarits II and III, but also point out that the wider DoF and smaller f/2.8 apertures make any "bokeh" from a 28mm less - expansive.

One has to shoot at close to 0.7m distance, and f/2.8, to see it much.

Pretty much any older double-gauss rangefinder 35mm lens (e.g. Nikkors and Canon Serenars) will do the same, to some extent. As well as the Voigtlander 35 f/1.4 - another close cousin to the Leica pre-ASPH 35 designs.

Thanks!

[Ray Vonn]

6 hours ago, TheBestSLIsALeicaflex said:

I've owned them both over the years, but own neither now.  The Aspherical model is bigger, heavier, and a lot of folks nearly revolted when it first came out.  The 4th version is probably better for B&W, and the Aspherical model for color film.  If  you shoot a digital camera, there's probably less of a difference.  All digital B&W looks similar to me, but I'm not expert with digital imaging.  If you're interested in the crisp, modern look, an excellent alternative in a very small package is the new Voightlander 35mm f/2 Ultron Aspherical.  It reminds me of the Aspherical Summicron.  As always, all these lenses are very good, and can't replace light and composition if not there.  No lens can.  

Thanks, appreciated.  Not personally seeking the modern look with my rangefinder, for me, modern images all look too similar out of camera, not even close to that look one can get with a CCD sensor and Mandler lens. But I do use the Voigts on my Nikon DSLR and used to adapt them to mirrorless when I owned a Fuji.  They provide that "something", different to native lenses in that regard. 

 

By the way, in my experience,  I find that if I am going to use the V4 wide open, then the best results are achieved when shooting in a contextual manner:

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Untitled by Otim, on Flickr

Tweenager by Otim, on Flickr

Marylebone, London by Otim, on Flickr

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Melbourne People by Otim, on Flickr

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Ray Vonn