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anyone thinking of upgrade from CL to SL2?


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2 hours ago, ECohen said:
Now there is a great poll!
 
Your a moderator, how about you make one?
How many us print our family photos shot with our Leica's?
Or our phones for that matter? 
Who prints ? How often?
 
What do you think the answer will be?
I'm betting 90% of Leica owners never print a single family photo.
Except the occasional 8x10 as a holiday gift?
And even less with their home printer.
 
 
Gazillions of photos made everyday. Start asking your friends
"What do you do with your photos"?......It makes for a fun conversation.
My favorite question ....Do you archive?
 

I even have a special printer for them : a Canon Selphy, high quality 10x 15 cm prints.

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A picture tells more then thousand words...: this is a photo from Tchaikovski's Nutcracker Suite in 2008 in Amsterdam, made with the M8 on ISO320, with the SAA 90mm at 1/180 and f2.4. I don't know if it already had the discrete mode at that time, I think it came later, but the lady before me was a little irritated about the noise of the shutter. This was the reason for me to step over the M8.2 as soon as it came out, because it had a 'considerable' more silent shutter 😁 (hear the M10 now...). Bu

CL2 will eventually be that upgrade.  Hopefully, even it it means a slight increase in body size, it will have IBIS, yes I know we can all manage without it but it does make a difference, and I see it as progress.  In the meantime we need some lenses!   Hopefully L mount alliance will help, but so far the lens offerings are more suited to a larger body.      

Certainly not. Why should I choose to carry such a burdensome bundle around with me when the CL is a more congenial camera to carry. Now, if I was a professional photographer like Jono Slack, I might reach a different decision. 

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46 minutes ago, rapha_tuesday_new_products said:

Please get back to camera/lens advice for family/ski/cycling photos

 
Have you been to a Leica store? .......I think you can borrow a CL for a day?

If it must be Leica, get a CL with with a normal zoom. Then get  the 23f/2 (35mm)

then the 55 to 135, then the 35mm f/1.4, then consider a wide angle zoom and then great Macro 60mm.

I've been waiting for the CL2 for 3 years.....it wont be much different than the current model. Does waiting matter?

Once the CL2 comes out you'll have a second body or trade you CL. Leica likes to do that.

Be advised Leica is a drug. I assume you have money to burn?

Seriously I'm not kidding there are tons of great cameras/systems that will fit the bill for a lot less money.

I'm not a fan of variable zooms. Members on this forum love the  Vario-Elmar-TL 18–56 f/3.5–5.6 ASPH. !

Curious What camera are you currently using for family/ski/cycling photos?

What cameras have you considered?

Are you cool with Post...like LR?  Do you currently Archive family photos ?

Don't consider an SL. Its a Pro camera and lenses are big. You wont carry a camera that's too big? I also wouldn't choose an M for this kind of photography

To be clear what are Ski/Cycle photos? Are you shooting the event or do you want a camera in your pocket while you Ski and Cycle?

Hope this helps Ask questions this Forum loves to answer them and these guys are a wealth of great information.

I'll bet there is 35,000 years of photography experience among its members;-)

 

 

 

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vor 56 Minuten schrieb ECohen:

 

I'll bet there is 35,000 years of photography experience among its members;-)

 

 

 

I know Leica is a drug...I consume Rapha as a cyclist (also addictive) but no worries I am a doctor 😉

I had nikon SLR than sony compact camera. iPhone if I am on the road by bike... (mea culpa)
Well I live in Germany so I need a german camera..thats why leica...than I saw the Paul smith CL (which in person looks terrible ATMO) 

I went to a Leica Store and saw  the CL and SL2. I loved the SL2 but that one is huge heavy and super pro...so actually I don't need that for sure...but love it

The CL would be perfect if that were weather resistant just like the SL2.  Lens I like is the 35 mm TL and the macro 60mm TL.

I would say the Q2 would be an option but than I need the SL2 in my life too (my wife will divorce me probably 😉 )

Ski/Cycle photos: I bring a camera/iphone with me while cycling or doing ski tour or just go hiking  (landscape photography) 

burning money : I prefer buying things once that last "forever"

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8 hours ago, rapha_tuesday_new_products said:

I know Leica is a drug...I consume Rapha as a cyclist (also addictive) but no worries I am a doctor 😉

I had nikon SLR than sony compact camera. iPhone if I am on the road by bike... (mea culpa)
Well I live in Germany so I need a german camera..thats why leica...than I saw the Paul smith CL (which in person looks terrible ATMO) 

I went to a Leica Store and saw  the CL and SL2. I loved the SL2 but that one is huge heavy and super pro...so actually I don't need that for sure...but love it

The CL would be perfect if that were weather resistant just like the SL2.  Lens I like is the 35 mm TL and the macro 60mm TL.

I would say the Q2 would be an option but than I need the SL2 in my life too (my wife will divorce me probably 😉 )

Ski/Cycle photos: I bring a camera/iphone with me while cycling or doing ski tour or just go hiking  (landscape photography) 

burning money : I prefer buying things once that last "forever"

 
I prefer buying things once that last "forever"
 
Don't we all but we are in the world of digital photography change is a fact.
Buying an expensive camera doesn't mean it's going to last longer or take better pictures...or even be the best choice.
You could wait for the CL2 ..... it could be a year maybe 2 away ....no one here really knows...and how much "better" will it be?
 
As for the SL2  FF ...... Great camera..... but would you carry it with you ...everyplace?
Would you spend 30K for the camera and a few of lenses? Do you need that file size ?
 
So I would say if it must be Leica get the Cl and a normal the zoom for versatility.
I suggest the zoom because of the kind of photos you will be taking.
Then for low light shooting get a prime .....23mm focal length is a good focal length for family events and groups (and landscapes).
I prefer the 23 but get the 35 if you prefer ....your going to eventually get them all anyway.
 
Now I have a general weather sealing question for the the forum. So the SL2 its weather sealed with a zoom its $12,000
How many hobbyists, not Pros will stand in the rain to shoot say a bike race or a marathon? Will you take it to the beach for family photos?
Would you throw it in a backpack and go Skiing or biking....... really be honest.?
To me I would get a "throw away $1000 camera " something I didn't care if I get sand in.
Exactly what kind of photos are you shooting that a $1000 camera can't take ....with a little Post processing?
 
I don't think you would be disappointed with a CL and any of Leica's current offering of lenses.
.......bring a gallon plastic bag in case it rains. You should always have a few in your camera bag anyway.
 
The CL is a great hiking camera and system ...... almost everything you will need from a camera.
Hope this helps?
 
I full disclosure I'm a retired professional photographer....45 years
I own an M240 kit, X2 and the Dlux 6. For long lenses and auto focus FF, I use a Nikon D600 (and hate it)
I choose not to get the CL because its current normal zoom would not allow me to replace my Nikon zooms.....As I prefer a fast non variable zoom.
I also did not want to spend 11K for a kit that did not eliminate all my other cameras....I'm getting old and I want less stuff.
The Sony a6500 does fill that need for $1600. Now there is a camera you can take to the beach, shoot in a misty rain and not care too much if it gets knocked around or even stolen.
 
Now that you know, maybe you would think that I have no business giving you my Leica suggestions 😉
 
Its all about the pictures....not the stuff.....Seriously Get the CL, normal zoom and a 23 or 35 prime ...... to start you'll love the quality of the camera and the files.
And once you get comfortable its a joy to use......according to this esteemed Forum
 
 
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8 hours ago, rapha_tuesday_new_products said:

I know Leica is a drug...I consume Rapha as a cyclist (also addictive) but no worries I am a doctor 😉

I had nikon SLR than sony compact camera. iPhone if I am on the road by bike... (mea culpa)
Well I live in Germany so I need a german camera..thats why leica...than I saw the Paul smith CL (which in person looks terrible ATMO) 

I went to a Leica Store and saw  the CL and SL2. I loved the SL2 but that one is huge heavy and super pro...so actually I don't need that for sure...but love it

The CL would be perfect if that were weather resistant just like the SL2.  Lens I like is the 35 mm TL and the macro 60mm TL.

I would say the Q2 would be an option but than I need the SL2 in my life too (my wife will divorce me probably 😉 )

Ski/Cycle photos: I bring a camera/iphone with me while cycling or doing ski tour or just go hiking  (landscape photography) 

burning money : I prefer buying things once that last "forever"

Funny, I've always thought Rapha was just over-priced style without substance. But I never bought any, so maybe it does offer better performance. Leica certainly does.

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9 minutes ago, ECohen said:
 
I prefer buying things once that last "forever"
 
Don't we all but we are in the world of digital photography change is a fact.
Buying an expensive camera doesn't mean it's going to last longer or take better pictures...or even be the best choice.
You could wait for the CL2 ..... it could be a year maybe 2 away ....no one here really knows...and how much "better" will it be?
 
As for the SL2  FF ...... Great camera..... but would you carry it with you ...everyplace?
Would you spend 30K for the camera and a few of lenses? Do you need that file size ?
 
So I would say if it must be Leica get the Cl and a normal the zoom for versatility.
I suggest the zoom because of the kind of photos you will be taking.
Then for low light shooting get a prime .....23mm focal length is a good focal length for family events and groups (and landscapes).
I prefer the 23 but get the 35 if you prefer ....your going to eventually get them all anyway.
 
Now I have a general weather sealing question for the the forum. So the SL2 its weather sealed with a zoom its $12,000
How many hobbyists, not Pros will stand in the rain to shoot say a bike race or a marathon? Will you take it to the beach for family photos?
Would you throw it in a backpack and go Skiing or biking....... really be honest.?
To me I would get a "throw away $1000 camera " something I didn't care if I get sand in.
Exactly what kind of photos are you shooting that a $1000 camera can't take ....with a little Post processing?
 
I don't think you would be disappointed with a CL and any of Leica's current offering of lenses.
.......bring a gallon plastic bag in case it rains. You should always have a few in your camera bag anyway.
 
The CL is a great hiking camera and system ...... almost everything you will need from a camera.
Hope this helps?
 
I full disclosure I'm a retired professional photographer....45 years
I own an M240 kit, X2 and the Dlux 6. For long lenses and auto focus FF, I use a Nikon D600 (and hate it)
I choose not to get the CL because its current normal zoom would not allow me to replace my Nikon zooms.....As I prefer a fast non variable zoom.
I also did not want to spend 11K for a kit that did not eliminate all my other cameras....I'm getting old and I want less stuff.
The Sony a6500 does fill that need for $1600. Now there is a camera you can take to the beach, shoot in a misty rain and not care too much if it gets knocked around or even stolen.
 
Now that you know, maybe you would think that I have no business giving you my Leica suggestions 😉
 
Its all about the pictures....not the stuff.....Seriously Get the CL, normal zoom and a 23 or 35 prime ...... to start you'll love the quality of the camera and the files.
And once you get comfortable its a joy to use......according to this esteemed Forum
 
 

+1 to everything. What he really needs is the Ricoh GR III.

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On 1/9/2020 at 4:20 PM, jaapv said:

Err.. Did your printer break down?

I print, but not as much as I should. My daughter just had books printed (10inx10in , 35 spreads) of her wedding photographs. Lay flat pages, excellent quality, not cheap (or inexpensive). My comparison is to prints off my Epson P800. It impressed me so much I am assembling book projects of past family vacations and also have plans to do the same with personal projects. Just sayin'...

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb ECohen:
 
I prefer buying things once that last "forever"
 
Don't we all but we are in the world of digital photography change is a fact.
Buying an expensive camera doesn't mean it's going to last longer or take better pictures...or even be the best choice.
You could wait for the CL2 ..... it could be a year maybe 2 away ....no one here really knows...and how much "better" will it be?
 
As for the SL2  FF ...... Great camera..... but would you carry it with you ...everyplace?
Would you spend 30K for the camera and a few of lenses? Do you need that file size ?
 
So I would say if it must be Leica get the Cl and a normal the zoom for versatility.
I suggest the zoom because of the kind of photos you will be taking.
Then for low light shooting get a prime .....23mm focal length is a good focal length for family events and groups (and landscapes).
I prefer the 23 but get the 35 if you prefer ....your going to eventually get them all anyway.
 
Now I have a general weather sealing question for the the forum. So the SL2 its weather sealed with a zoom its $12,000
How many hobbyists, not Pros will stand in the rain to shoot say a bike race or a marathon? Will you take it to the beach for family photos?
Would you throw it in a backpack and go Skiing or biking....... really be honest.?
To me I would get a "throw away $1000 camera " something I didn't care if I get sand in.
Exactly what kind of photos are you shooting that a $1000 camera can't take ....with a little Post processing?
 
I don't think you would be disappointed with a CL and any of Leica's current offering of lenses.
.......bring a gallon plastic bag in case it rains. You should always have a few in your camera bag anyway.
 
The CL is a great hiking camera and system ...... almost everything you will need from a camera.
Hope this helps?
 
I full disclosure I'm a retired professional photographer....45 years
I own an M240 kit, X2 and the Dlux 6. For long lenses and auto focus FF, I use a Nikon D600 (and hate it)
I choose not to get the CL because its current normal zoom would not allow me to replace my Nikon zooms.....As I prefer a fast non variable zoom.
I also did not want to spend 11K for a kit that did not eliminate all my other cameras....I'm getting old and I want less stuff.
The Sony a6500 does fill that need for $1600. Now there is a camera you can take to the beach, shoot in a misty rain and not care too much if it gets knocked around or even stolen.
 
Now that you know, maybe you would think that I have no business giving you my Leica suggestions 😉
 
Its all about the pictures....not the stuff.....Seriously Get the CL, normal zoom and a 23 or 35 prime ...... to start you'll love the quality of the camera and the files.
And once you get comfortable its a joy to use......according to this esteemed Forum
 
 

Hi, ECohen,

I agree a 100% with you. I had , starting January 2018 until February 2019, the SL 601; it's a fantastic camera. But i swapped February 2019, because of heavy weight of body and lense, to the CL and bought 2 Tl-lenses and a M-Lense. I'm very glad with this decision and enjoy using my Leica-Equipment.

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vor 9 Stunden schrieb ECohen:
 
I prefer buying things once that last "forever"
 
 
 
 

Thanks for your kind help. The SL2 is not an option...has to be a CL will look around in the TL lenses.
You are absolutely right, waiting for a camera release is just stupid

just one more question: how do you feel about the Q2? 

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My perspective as a Q2 + CL combo user. With Q2 as my main camera. Something like 60/40 ratio. 

SL2 is a very attractive camera. So I tried it again yesterday with my newly bought APO-Macro-Elmarit-R 100  

@bags27 were so right. I should have bought it on launch day. It would have save me lots of overthinking. 

AMER 100 is awesome with the SL2 : IBIS makes somewhat a difference for manual focusing and lowering shutter speed. But it is also very nice with the CL. The viewing is not really more stable when magnified at 6x with the SL2 than with the CL sadly. 

IBIS is not a tripod replacement at all. Because lower shutter speed ability is not consistent. It works most of the time and sometimes not. I really hate those uncertainties. With higher shutter speed, I am absolutely sure that motion blur won’t happen. 

 

So it strikes me. Does the SL2 solve any problem for me ? Yes it offers IBIS, quite handy for long lenses. However its big size and heavy weight will make me less likely to bring it with me as often as the CL. 
Today carrying Q2 + CL + 1 or 2 lenses is a no brainier. But with a heavy SL2 ? I am not sure at all. 
So in order to solve one small problem : lack of IBIS, I got a much bigger one : too heavy to carry it with me everyday. 

So for the same reason that I chose CL over the SL. I am still standing behind CL over SL2. Portability is the key. 

Another factor is the fact that compact and light Summilux-TL 35 and APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60 are so good, that I won’t trade them for bigger SL lenses. 

Then talking about problem solving camera. I am very excited about Leica’s newest collaboration with Insta360. The One R 1 inch edition looks awesome.

For someone like me who doesn’t like the rendering of action camera, having one with a big sensor and a nice lens (I hope) is godsend. 
It is a big deal : way smaller than smartphone, swim proof and shock proof. Providing same AI enhanced photos and videos as lastest smartphones.
1-inch sensor cropped to 19 MP for electronic stabilisation reason. With 14.4mm equivalent fisheye or linear viewing. With f/3.2 aperture. It is not that far from Lumix G 8mm fisheye f/3.5 with a 20MP m4/3 sensor. Only 1 stop of size difference. 
 

So maybe better to invest 599€ instead of 5990€ for a camera that I can bring literally everywhere I want. 
I am just waiting for the first review next week on the 14th. 


 

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On 1/11/2020 at 1:07 AM, bags27 said:

Funny, I've always thought Rapha was just over-priced style without substance. But I never bought any, so maybe it does offer better performance. Leica certainly does.

Trouble with Rapha, which I only ever buy in 'sales' is that it is actually bloody good, like leica.

On my road bike I find the tl2 and 18mm fits in any of my rapha tops with Iphone in another

Rapha rain jacket keeps it dry if I've misjudged or been unable to avoid the rain

Even in wet Wales I can usually avoid the worst soakings

Dry use tl2, wet use iphone

On a bike tour cl and too many lenses in panniers or in handle bar bag

I actually have panniers on my trail bike and town bike too so nearly always have cl if I want

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  • 1 month later...

It'll be difficult to incorporate IBIS in a CL2 as some people are expecting here. That little battery in there will be strained enough if they go to 47MP to bring it in line with the Q2 and SL2.

No harm in hoping though. Personally i wouldn't mind a CL2 being a little bigger, say M sized, with a little larger viewfinder and a larger battery. 

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1 hour ago, 2M6TTLs said:

It'll be difficult to incorporate IBIS in a CL2 as some people are expecting here. That little battery in there will be strained enough if they go to 47MP to bring it in line with the Q2 and SL2.

No harm in hoping though. Personally i wouldn't mind a CL2 being a little bigger, say M sized, with a little larger viewfinder and a larger battery. 

Certainly not going to 47mps in the CL2. Maybe with Sony IBIS 32 mps APS-C either out or said to be coming out (I don't follow) 

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1 hour ago, 2M6TTLs said:

It'll be difficult to incorporate IBIS in a CL2 as some people are expecting here. That little battery in there will be strained enough if they go to 47MP to bring it in line with the Q2 and SL2.

No harm in hoping though. Personally i wouldn't mind a CL2 being a little bigger, say M sized, with a little larger viewfinder and a larger battery. 

A CL2 would appeal more to me if it retained the same size but upgraded sensor.If you need a bigger sensor and accept a bigger battery and body, look at the SL2.

If a CL2 comes to pass, please may the hand grip be built into the body; or introduce a new grip with tripod socket included.

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28 minutes ago, wda said:

A CL2 would appeal more to me if it retained the same size but upgraded sensor.If you need a bigger sensor and accept a bigger battery and body, look at the SL2.

If a CL2 comes to pass, please may the hand grip be built into the body; or introduce a new grip with tripod socket included.

Built-in hand grip could hold a bigger battery without otherwise increasing significantly the dimensions. 

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case closed: went for the Q2 🙂

The SL2 was the goal, but for my purposes it would be unpractical. I wanted to have FF, tested SL2 and Q2. The Q2 is very practical, and can crop as much as I just want.
If the kids will be bigger = more spare time, I will buy the SL2...or SL3 or whatever I will fall in love that time

THANK YOU ALL for the help!

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19 minutes ago, rapha_tuesday_new_products said:

case closed: went for the Q2 🙂

The SL2 was the goal, but for my purposes it would be unpractical. I wanted to have FF, tested SL2 and Q2. The Q2 is very practical, and can crop as much as I just want.
If the kids will be bigger = more spare time, I will buy the SL2...or SL3 or whatever I will fall in love that time

THANK YOU ALL for the help!

Great choice. But, for the kids at least not if, but when. 😀

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