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rbookman

Timestamp errors with my new Q2

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Working on a project today and I encountered an error with the timestamps on today's shoot of ~300 images.

Firmware is latest and data/time settings were set correctly. SDXC card is fast, UHSII. All images single shot, not continuous.

Here's a screen shot of the Mac OS file directory showing out of sequence image files.

See how file name sequence goes from 676, 677, 720, 721, then continues 678, 679, ...686, 722, 723, 724, 687, 688

These mistaken timestamps are also reflected in the metadata in Lightroom Classic.

Images taken 8 blocks apart in NYC are reported in metadata has having been taken 20 seconds apart.

Any idea what's going on??

Any suggestions how to prevent this from happening?

 

Thanks!

Richard

 

 

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Absolutely no idea. My first question were you in continuous shooting mode and you answered that, no. That would have been my first place to go. Using FOTOS? My guess it’s a bug writing to memory. I’d contact Leica support. Bummer if it’s important to you. Good luck. 

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8 minutes ago, frame-it said:

out of sequence numbering or missing files ?

@Leica Guy: I can always order by filename in LR, so it's not devastating....just worrying in case I ever needed an accurate timestamp.

@frame-it: Neither.

All images numbers were used and in the correct sequence. It's only the timestamps that are off.

The filesystem list was ordered by date/time. Here's another look at the same list but now ordered by filename/image #....and then you can see how the date/time "rewound" by ~23 minutes....and the rest of the set of images have this offset.

I checked the date/time on the camera this morning and it is correct.

I'm still scratching my head on this one.....

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I’m wondering if this is happening from slow clearing of the Q2’s memory buffer. If so, slow writing due to a slow or malfunctioning SD card would exacerbate the problem.

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I just tried to reconstruct my actions between image Q102700 and Q1020701....the 22 minute gap.

Based on image content, after '700, I stopped at a Starbucks for a coffee.

What did I do while at Starbucks?

Opened Fotos on my iPhone (latest rev of iOS) and linked the app to my Q2 which then transferred today's images over to the phone.

(Sidenote: this completely screwed my efforts at battery management which had been perfect up to this point. The shooting day ended early with dead battery bec/ I did not account for Fotos/Q2 link battery drain. I won't make that mistake twice. The battery life has been so good that I could fill a 64Gb card on a single charge.)

So, this creates the grounds for the hypothesis that something about Fotos and Q2 pairing caused the wrinkle in time. I'll try to figure out a test and report back.

Anyone else seen something like this with Fotos use?

Thanks!!

 

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The time recorded on the list you provided is the time the file was written onto the SD card. It would be interesting to look at the EXIF data for Q102700 and Q1020701 to see the time that the image capture was recorded. I suspect that the writing of Q1020701 from the buffer to the SD card was delayed while using The Fotos app. 
It’s good to understand how the data is managed by the camera’s OS.

Roy

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1 hour ago, RoySmith said:

The time recorded on the list you provided is the time the file was written onto the SD card. It would be interesting to look at the EXIF data for Q102700 and Q1020701 to see the time that the image capture was recorded. I suspect that the writing of Q1020701 from the buffer to the SD card was delayed while using The Fotos app. 
It’s good to understand how the data is managed by the camera’s OS.

Roy

@RoySmith: You're right, of course, but I checked those SD card timestamps against the metadata reported by Lightroom and by an EXIF viewer app....all agree...699, 700, 701, etc.

Q1020701 was back-timestamped...that is, the time value was at least 22 minutes BEFORE the photo was actually taken...and, to the best of my knowledge, Fotos was no longer running and paired. But, that linkage or lack of linkage may be hard to prove....since the devices were in proximity and I did not explicitly 'quit' the Fotos app.

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Hi, I don't have a Q2, but, on my Canon 90D & Canon iPhone App I can either use the cameras Date Time or sync the images with the iPhone Time. This would obviously change the original EXIF info..  Is there such a setting on  Leica Fotos ?     L

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@lykaman: thanks for the suggestion.

In this case, I was only playing with Fotos on my iPhone to review the images. Doing so does not write back anything to the SD card, so far as I know.

Also, they were not captured using the Fotos app, so the timestamp could only be sourced from the camera itself...which still leaves the mystery of how a Leica Q2 managed to reverse time and give me a re-do of those 22 minutes of my life...;-}

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13 minutes ago, rbookman said:

@lykaman: thanks for the suggestion.

In this case, I was only playing with Fotos on my iPhone to review the images. Doing so does not write back anything to the SD card, so far as I know.

Also, they were not captured using the Fotos app, so the timestamp could only be sourced from the camera itself...which still leaves the mystery of how a Leica Q2 managed to reverse time and give me a re-do of those 22 minutes of my life...;-}

Sounds Fascinating ~  A  "Back To The Future"  feature  ~ What will Leica think of next... In all seriousness,  I would call Leica & get some real answers.. Might it be the sealed in battery that covers time etc.. either  needs charging or replacing?                                        (I am considering buying a Q-P) ...     Take Care.  L

Edited by lykaman

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I appreciate all the comments and now need to add one additional hypothesis:

Suppose that the Q2 did not reverse time. (Damn....I was starting to like having that feature!) 

Linking to Fotos (and therefore to global internet atomic/GPS clocks) simply corrected the time on my Q2, which somehow had gotten off by ~22 minutes.

In other words, it's not that '701 was off by 22 minutes, but rather '699 and the preceding images were all off by 22 minutes.

How might that have happened ? Well, I've been in different time zones recently and perhaps I inadvertently dinged the minutes setting when I was changing the time zone. Doubt it, but still...

Or, perhaps there is clock drift in the Q2 clock.

Or.....?

 

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19 hours ago, rbookman said:

I appreciate all the comments and now need to add one additional hypothesis:

Suppose that the Q2 did not reverse time. (Damn....I was starting to like having that feature!) 

Linking to Fotos (and therefore to global internet atomic/GPS clocks) simply corrected the time on my Q2, which somehow had gotten off by ~22 minutes.

In other words, it's not that '701 was off by 22 minutes, but rather '699 and the preceding images were all off by 22 minutes.

How might that have happened ? Well, I've been in different time zones recently and perhaps I inadvertently dinged the minutes setting when I was changing the time zone. Doubt it, but still...

Or, perhaps there is clock drift in the Q2 clock.

Or.....?

 

I seriously doubt that the Q2 clock would have drifted. Current crystal oscillators are incredibly accurate. My guess is your going between time zones somehow changed the clock settings. Very possibly there’s nothing wrong with your Q2. I would be alert to do you see anything again when you’re not moving between time zones. 

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15 minutes ago, Leica Guy said:

I seriously doubt that the Q2 clock would have drifted. Current crystal oscillators are incredibly accurate. My guess is your going between time zones somehow changed the clock settings. Very possibly there’s nothing wrong with your Q2. I would be alert to do you see anything again when you’re not moving between time zones. 

Mystery solved....at least partially.

Linking my Q2 to the Fotos app synchronizes the Q2 time to network time.

I tested this by setting the Q2 time to be ~40 minutes off of correct time. I took a few images and verified that the timestamp in metadata was the incorrect time. I then linked to the Fotos app, transferred those few tests images to Fotos and then took a few more images. The later ones (and the camera time as well in Time menu item) now all show the correct time...without my having re-visited the Time menu item.

So, this explains why I had the time jump in the images sequence after using Fotos....an undocumented 'feature' of Fotos to time-sync...but still leaves the mystery of why the Q2 clock was off by ~22 minutes to begin with. I agree that Q2 clock drift seems highly unlikely, but it is also a pretty strange set of finger presses that would offset the time by 22 minutes when shifting time zones. I'll keep an eye on Q2 time in the weeks to come.

Just like science....you solve one mystery only to open up another....

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4 minutes ago, rbookman said:

Mystery solved....at least partially.

Linking my Q2 to the Fotos app synchronizes the Q2 time to network time.

I tested this by setting the Q2 time to be ~40 minutes off of correct time. I took a few images and verified that the timestamp in metadata was the incorrect time. I then linked to the Fotos app, transferred those few tests images to Fotos and then took a few more images. The later ones (and the camera time as well in Time menu item) now all show the correct time...without my having re-visited the Time menu item.

So, this explains why I had the time jump in the images sequence after using Fotos....an undocumented 'feature' of Fotos to time-sync...but still leaves the mystery of why the Q2 clock was off by ~22 minutes to begin with. I agree that Q2 clock drift seems highly unlikely, but it is also a pretty strange set of finger presses that would offset the time by 22 minutes when shifting time zones. I'll keep an eye on Q2 time in the weeks to come.

Just like science....you solve one mystery only to open up another....

Glad to hear. Definitely new insights explain much of the “odd” behavior. My guess is your camera is fine. Enjoy!!! 

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I am not sure whether I like it. It is definitely comfortable. On the other hand I would like to decide when to change the time zone. Hm.

-tk

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I am not sure whether I like it. It is definitely comfortable. On the other hand I would like to decide when to change the time zone. Hm.

-tk

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