leica sl2 Leica SL2 reviews

[jrp]

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https://uk.pcmag.com/adobe-photoshop-lightroom-5/123420/leica-sl2

Quote

Bottom Line: Leica's take on a modern mirrorless camera, the SL2, features a high-resolution full-frame sensor, speedy autofocus, and a stunning design—but you pay for it.

 

https://uk.pcmag.com/gallery/123419/leica-sl2

Edited November 7, 2019 by jrp

[Leicaiste]

20 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Best video review on IQ so far, starting at 4:50.

 

That part is non sense. Layers of glasses on the Panasonic sensor to correct lenses ?
 

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[Jk1002]

He mentions problem with the viewfinder but they had pre production version. 4:48 onwards, that critique did not make it into the bullet points in the end of the video.

His sum up is what I expected, am still leaning towards it ...

 

 

[SocialKonstruct]

With the size of the SL2 being pretty heavy and large, how does this fit into the Leica design philosophy I wonder?

I presume that the SL series is supposed to replace the former R series?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wySW5n0JIvk

Edited November 7, 2019 by SocialKonstruct

[sillbeers15]

8 hours ago, sillbeers15 said:

 ...Of all the reviews, the most negative about SL2’s AF came from Chris of DP Review. Chris commented the SL2 AF is poorer than S1/R and the AF hunts. ...

As a follow up to negative comment about SL2’s AF hunting worst than S1R while focus tracking, reading the SL2 review from Image-resource mentioned the lower resolution image that appears on the EVF while the camera performs AF tracking on moving subject but the actual image captured has a 80% sharp pics hit rate. I recall immediately having the same experience with the SL1 except sharp pics hit rate is lower at 50%-60%. 

So I am certain that Chris from DP Review who experienced the AF hunting on SL2 must be related to what he saw through the EVF and not referring to image captured. 

I will attempt to recreate the experience when I get hold of my SL2.

[SrMi]

20 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

As a follow up to negative comment about SL2’s AF hunting worst than S1R while focus tracking, reading the SL2 review from Image-resource mentioned the lower resolution image that appears on the EVF while the camera performs AF tracking on moving subject but the actual image captured has a 80% sharp pics hit rate. I recall immediately having the same experience with the SL1 except sharp pics hit rate is lower at 50%-60%. 

So I am certain that Chris from DP Review who experienced the AF hunting on SL2 must be related to what he saw through the EVF and not referring to image captured. 

I will attempt to recreate the experience when I get hold of my SL2.

Many mirrorless cameras reduce resolution while focusing. GFX50S has one of the worst effects caused by that approach.

I like how SL2 reviewers are focusing on camera experience and not only on tech spec.

They seem to say that SL2 does not use DFD (CDAF with eliminated wobble).

Edited November 7, 2019 by SrMi

[Mr.Q]

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25 minutes ago, sillbeers15 said:

As a follow up to negative comment about SL2’s AF hunting worst than S1R while focus tracking, reading the SL2 review from Image-resource mentioned the lower resolution image that appears on the EVF while the camera performs AF tracking on moving subject but the actual image captured has a 80% sharp pics hit rate. I recall immediately having the same experience with the SL1 except sharp pics hit rate is lower at 50%-60%. 

So I am certain that Chris from DP Review who experienced the AF hunting on SL2 must be related to what he saw through the EVF and not referring to image captured. 

I will attempt to recreate the experience when I get hold of my SL2.

I respect your optimism but at best the AF performance will be on par with the S1R. Leica opted for a high resolution sensor with no PDAF, which obviously has it's limitations. That's OK, as I'm sure most potential buyers aren't seeking a speed demon, and quite frankly, there aren't enough lenses (save for the 90-280) to attract serious sports and action shooters anyway.

Looking past that one shortcoming though, it has all of the latest FF tech with the best in class video feature. In addition, I feel the design, simplicity, and Leica lenses (both L and M mount) make the SL2 unique and extremely competitive.

For me though, I still can't get over the weight. I may wait for reviews of the new Panasonic 16-35 because the SL 16-35 would make the combo weigh 2kg, which would open up a can of worms as I'd also need a heavier tripod, bigger bag, etc. It'd be nice if the 21/24/28 Summicrons were available but who knows when they'll will ship. For landscapes and travel, I'll likely stay with the X1D II for the time being. There's no perfect camera, and as they say, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[bags27]

The weight is a hard pill to swallow for me as well, especially when combined with the fabulous--but heavy--L mount lenses. For some it works, for others it seems more like a studio kit. Ir's somewhat ironic that the weight is partially due to the tank-like build of the camera. And yet, it's precisely the weight from that build that prevents many of us from using it in the way that its build quality was designed for: in the field.

The problem, I guess, is that Leica has decided on one and only one flagship mirrorless. And that means pouring everything into it, so that it does everything quite well (stills, video, M lens compatibility, etc) and is incredibly durable. So, there's apparently little this camera can't do. But who needs to schlepp all that around? (maybe me 🙂) 

Edited November 7, 2019 by bags27

[caissa]

The weight is actually less than I had expected after the S1R. Leica did a good job at keeping the weight down and producing IP54 sealing at the same time. It is actually 64g heavier than the SL. (in the announcements there has been some confusion about that.) I think the SL2 is much better than many had expected a few days ago. And it offers all the things that have been addressed in the wish lists on this forum. (Incredible !!)

Edited November 7, 2019 by caissa

[SrMi]

More an overview than a review:

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/11/leica-sl2-announced-47mp-ibis-cine4k60-and-more/

With interesting tidbits:

- OIS/IBIS combination can produce more than 6 stops of stabilization

- In addition to the free version, a paid FOTOS Pro version for iOS ($49.99 per year) will be available as well.

 

[dfarkas]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

More an overview than a review:

https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2019/11/leica-sl2-announced-47mp-ibis-cine4k60-and-more/

With interesting tidbits:

- OIS/IBIS combination can produce more than 6 stops of stabilization

- In addition to the free version, a paid FOTOS Pro version for iOS ($49.99 per year) will be available as well.

 

Yup. Full review coming soon on Red Dot Forum. Stay tuned.....

 

[Dantist]

Hi !

Had a SL2 in hands today at photo salon in Paris.

Not quite convinced, whether the price is really afordable due to the technical skills.

First of all, but it doesn't matter, I feel it ugly : a square box, with sharp angles that will bump and take wounds at every trekking party. Finally not important, it will look like the photographer, at the end of the dark.

I can't feel the sensor is really sized 8368x5584, the body camera is rather small...To be checked further on. But the results seem to be here, at "rendez-vous". Good music, Maestro III ? Had rather bad lights conditions, can't really put a strong mark on it.

Lenses : not yet tried other lenses, but the Summicron 35 is marvellous, after looking deep at the files with Capture One. By the way, never ask me what's going on with Lightroom, I've banned it, red tints are just a big joke when processed by it... There is a adaptator to fix M lenses on SL2. To be considered for the time being. I remember beginning of 80's, I owned a ring to fix Hasselblad 120 mm lenses on a Contax RTS Zeiss 35 mm. Very scarce. Leica should think about it !!!

The programs are not simple to fix. Aperture, sensitivity, speed, automatic, easy DOF ? Not enough at all, and really too complicated. The viewfinder is overloaded with informations that don't clear the sight for the scene. Plus the focus point that goes here and there whitout asking or disappearing, my bad !

I do say I had it for half an hour, which not enough. But it follows the very great experience of a photo work with a Leica. Quite sure, after enough time "to train the animal", that you can focus on the scene, not on the tool.

Enjoy !

[IkarusJohn]

Covfefe

[sillbeers15]

9 hours ago, Mr.Q said:

I respect your optimism but at best the AF performance will be on par with the S1R. Leica opted for a high resolution sensor with no PDAF, which obviously has it's limitations. That's OK, as I'm sure most potential buyers aren't seeking a speed demon, and quite frankly, there aren't enough lenses (save for the 90-280) to attract serious sports and action shooters anyway.

 

The only thing I am optimistic I have about SL2 AF is knowing it has Maestro III processor.

I am merely trying to correct mis conception and user error found in reviews.

Snapchick’s SL2 Review video commented that the SL2 AF tracking gave mostly out of focus shots and she recommended panning the camera on subject and do short burst for Sharp pics. ...I was laughing to myself when I saw it. To someone who does not know the camera will be quick to conclude that the AF tracking in sequence shots are useless. But I think it is due to the fact that the reviewer set the camera on ‘Continuous Drive High’ mode. As there will be no AF/AE on subsequent shots, so the bicycle motion she was tracking lost focus. Short burst yield sharp pics as the first shot has AF/AE.

On a friendly note, I would also like to correct a misconception you stated ‘Leica opted for a high resolution sensor with no PDAF, which obviously has it's limitations.’ , If the camera focuses slowly due to hunting. It is correctly attributed to CDAF limitation. However DFD took care of that on Pana & Leica cameras (Low light hunting is a different issue). SL exhibits the AF tracking shortcoming of producing one frame sharp followed by subsequent frame soft focus before returning back to sharp pics again when AFC and Continues Drive Medium is set. This is especially obvious on 90-280mm. After much analysis, I did not think it is a CDAF or PDAF issue but rather the AF calculation is too slow to refocus due to processor limit even on Continuous Drive Medium/AFC setting. As a result, AF tracking success rate on SL is 50% to 60% from my user experience. I now read 80% on SL2 from Review but I need to verify on my own after I receive my SL2.

[SocialKonstruct]

Honestly I am skeptical that Snapchick used the autofocus settings properly. I suspect that there is another mode which gives more accurate focusing.

[SocialKonstruct]

4 hours ago, Dantist said:

Hi !

Had a SL2 in hands today at photo salon in Paris.

Not quite convinced, whether the price is really afordable due to the technical skills.

First of all, but it doesn't matter, I feel it ugly : a square box, with sharp angles that will bump and take wounds at every trekking party. Finally not important, it will look like the photographer, at the end of the dark.

I can't feel the sensor is really sized 8368x5584, the body camera is rather small...To be checked further on. But the results seem to be here, at "rendez-vous". Good music, Maestro III ? Had rather bad lights conditions, can't really put a strong mark on it.

Lenses : not yet tried other lenses, but the Summicron 35 is marvellous, after looking deep at the files with Capture One. By the way, never ask me what's going on with Lightroom, I've banned it, red tints are just a big joke when processed by it... There is a adaptator to fix M lenses on SL2. To be considered for the time being. I remember beginning of 80's, I owned a ring to fix Hasselblad 120 mm lenses on a Contax RTS Zeiss 35 mm. Very scarce. Leica should think about it !!!

The programs are not simple to fix. Aperture, sensitivity, speed, automatic, easy DOF ? Not enough at all, and really too complicated. The viewfinder is overloaded with informations that don't clear the sight for the scene. Plus the focus point that goes here and there whitout asking or disappearing, my bad !

I do say I had it for half an hour, which not enough. But it follows the very great experience of a photo work with a Leica. Quite sure, after enough time "to train the animal", that you can focus on the scene, not on the tool.

Enjoy !

Interesting comments but hard to tell whether you enjoyed using the SL2 or thought it was a button masher instead.

[Chaemono]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb sillbeers15:

On a friendly note, I would also like to correct a misconception you stated ‘Leica opted for a high resolution sensor with no PDAF, which obviously has it's limitations.’ , If the camera focuses slowly due to hunting. It is correctly attributed to CDAF limitation. However DFD took care of that on Pana & Leica cameras (Low light hunting is a different issue). SL exhibits the AF tracking shortcoming of producing one frame sharp followed by subsequent frame soft focus before returning back to sharp pics again when AFC and Continues Drive Medium is set. This is especially obvious on 90-280mm. After much analysis, I did not think it is a CDAF or PDAF issue but rather the AF calculation is too slow to refocus due to processor limit even on Continuous Drive Medium/AFC setting. As a result, AF tracking success rate on SL is 50% to 60% from my user experience. I now read 80% on SL2 from Review but I need to verify on my own after I receive my SL2.

Do you think success rate would be good, if one puts it in 20fps with AFS and then simply pans to follow the subject?  20fps is almost like recording video, so there should be no EVF blackout. Let's say the settings are as follows.

Focus Mode: Auto Focus Single (obviously since no AFC with 20fps)

Drive Mode: 20fps

Auto Focus Field: Field or Single Point or Zone??

Auto Focus Mode: Dynamic (Tracking)

One could simply fix the green box on a moving subject, then start to shoot, and pan along with the subject.

[sillbeers15]

4 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Do you think success rate would be good, if one puts it in 20fps with AFS and then simply pans to follow the subject?  20fps is almost like recording video, so there should be no EVF blackout. Let's say the settings are as follows.

Focus Mode: Auto Focus Single (obviously since no AFC with 20fps)

Drive Mode: 20fps

Auto Focus Field: Field or Single Point or Zone??

Auto Focus Mode: Dynamic (Tracking)

One could simply fix the green box on a moving subject, then start to shoot, and pan along with the subject.

I had asked myself the same question about setting to AFS instead of AFC.

I have not used AFS for AF tracking sometime ago. I could not recall the cause but if my memory is right it must be due to trigger not responding when image not focused.

One thought arrived is to try setting on Continuous Drive High or Using eshutter, Pam subject and shoot short burst of say no more 3 shots each time. 1-2 shots should be in focus as the first shot is focused by camera and second shot change in position isn’t that difference anyway. Mashing the trigger continuously on Continuous Drive High will not last long before buffer runs out anyway.

[Mr.Q]

1 hour ago, sillbeers15 said:

The only thing I am optimistic I have about SL2 AF is knowing it has Maestro III processor.

I am merely trying to correct mis conception and user error found in reviews.

Snapchick’s SL2 Review video commented that the SL2 AF tracking gave mostly out of focus shots and she recommended panning the camera on subject and do short burst for Sharp pics. ...I was laughing to myself when I saw it. To someone who does not know the camera will be quick to conclude that the AF tracking in sequence shots are useless. But I think it is due to the fact that the reviewer set the camera on ‘Continuous Drive High’ mode. As there will be no AF/AE on subsequent shots, so the bicycle motion she was tracking lost focus. Short burst yield sharp pics as the first shot has AF/AE.

On a friendly note, I would also like to correct a misconception you stated ‘Leica opted for a high resolution sensor with no PDAF, which obviously has it's limitations.’ , If the camera focuses slowly due to hunting. It is correctly attributed to CDAF limitation. However DFD took care of that on Pana & Leica cameras (Low light hunting is a different issue). SL exhibits the AF tracking shortcoming of producing one frame sharp followed by subsequent frame soft focus before returning back to sharp pics again when AFC and Continues Drive Medium is set. This is especially obvious on 90-280mm. After much analysis, I did not think it is a CDAF or PDAF issue but rather the AF calculation is too slow to refocus due to processor limit even on Continuous Drive Medium/AFC setting. As a result, AF tracking success rate on SL is 50% to 60% from my user experience. I now read 80% on SL2 from Review but I need to verify on my own after I receive my SL2.

Honestly I don't have a dog in this fight as I'm considering this camera as a X1D replacement for landscapes/travel, so the AF performance will be much improved regardless. And for reliable AF-C I have the A9 with the 100-400 and 200-600 which is just incredible for tracking. I'm just not sure you are buying the right camera if AF-C performance is a priority. Here's another review mentioning the limitations of the AF system. Misses focus on fast moving subjects and AF-C in video seems unusable. 
 

I'm not sure how I'm going to answer your PDAF vs CDAF argument. Your faith in the Maestro III processor is starting to make you sound delusional. They aren't going to sprinkle some voodoo magic in their chips. I know the benefits/limitations of both AF systems and have no misconceptions. I've used cameras with both AF systems since the days when processing was archaic compared to a current day Maestro/Venus/Bionz/etc processor. The advantages of PDAF was evident then and still is today.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[MarkP]

11 hours ago, SrMi said:

 

- In addition to the free version, a paid FOTOS Pro version for iOS ($49.99 per year) will be available as well.

 

That’s very rude

Don’t we pay enough already?