My Leica M2 with M3 serial number on top

[zimsam]

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Hi, I'm very new to leica cameras. I'm curious my leica M2 has M3 serial number on top. Please see attached images. I've looked around the internet but didn't see anyone with this issue.

Here is M2/M3 serial number list that I found.

Quote

M2
949401   950000    Leica M2 (chrom)    1959    600
956501   957000    Leica M1^^    1959    [500]
959501   960200    Leica M2 Vorlaufwerk    1959    700

Quote

M3
951901   952000    Leica M3 ELC    1959    100
952501   954800    Leica M3    1959    2300
954801   954900    Leica M3 ELC    1959    100

Would greatly appreciate any help, thank you!

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Edited November 5, 2019 by zimsam

[Rus]

Curious. Perhaps your best bet is to send an email to Leica directly and see what they make of this. 

I for one will be quite interested in hearing what they have to say. Good luck!

Edited November 11, 2019 by Rus

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[wizard]

I note that your M2 is a so-called button rewind version (you have to press the button at the front for being able to rewind, rather than switching a small lever to the rewind position, as with the M3 and later M2 models). To the best of my knowldge, only very early M2 cameras had that button rewind feature. But the serial number of your camera does not appear to correspond to an early M2 (or M3 for that matter), so this is indeed a little dubious.

Cheers,

Andy

[Pyrogallol]

I think yours is not the very first version as it has a self timer, mine doesn’t and is 944***

the self timer was an optional extra during the serial number period yours comes from (see next picture from the Denis Laney collectors book). If it was optional perhaps that accounts for the serial number coming from an M3 batch, an M2 with self timer special order?

 

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Edited November 12, 2019 by Pyrogallol

[Pyrogallol]

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[UliWer]

According to Lager (vol. I, p.200) the rewind lever was introduced with No. 970261, so the example shown here with push button should be o.k. As has been said before the self-timer was an option on early examples (949101 being the first known), the camera shown by zimsan doesn‘t raise much suspicion as far as its outward appearance is concerned. 
Rests the number which seems to belong to an M3. Though you can never be sure if any of the published lists with camera numbers is exact. So I‘d recommend to wait if the Leica Archive does tell you anything about the origin. Perhaps all lists have to be corrected afterwards. 
 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by UliWer

[wizard]

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vor 14 Minuten schrieb UliWer:

According to Lager (vol. I, p.200) the rewind lever was introduced with No. 970261

Thanks for checking, I would have thought that the lever was introduced much earlier. So that is not a cause of concern then. Is there a way to check whether the top plate is the original one that came with the camera body? The top plate sure looks genuine, but it could come from another camera (not an M3 though). However, the more I think about it, this being Leitz, anything was possible at the time and it could very well be that there are some M2 bodies interspersed in an M3 serial no. run.

Edited November 12, 2019 by wizard

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

Another possibility is that this is an M1 from 1959 which was converted to an M2. Because the serial number is only 55 beyond the theoretical end of a group of M1's produced in 1959. This group officially ended with 952500 according to the WIKI at the top of this page. Perhaps Leica might know more.

Best Regards,

Michael

[jc_braconi]

Hello

I have a M2 lever rewind + self timer with a number of a M1
a M4-P with a number of a M4-2
a MD with a number of a M4-P

So....

[sandro]

My MD-2 has a number of a M4-2 from 1978-79, but the first serial numbers for MD-2 bodies are from 1980.

Lex

[UliWer]

Take it as it is:

None of the published lists with serial numbers for certain camera types is without fault.

So it is much more probable that you have discovered another mistake in the lists than having a false number on your camera, or a false camera for your number. 

Edited November 18, 2019 by UliWer

[willeica]

3 hours ago, UliWer said:

Take it as it is:

None of the published lists with serial numbers for certain camera types is without fault.

So it is much more probable that you have discovered another mistake in the lists than having a false number on your camera, or a false camera for your number. 

Could be true, but it is much more likely that Leica did not use strict sequences of numbers for particular models. There is plenty of evidence to this effect. 

William

[UliWer]

Am 19.11.2019 um 00:21 schrieb willeica:

Could be true, but it is much more likely that Leica did not use strict sequences of numbers for particular models. There is plenty of evidence to this effect. 

 

Yes. The lists which suggest that all cameras in a certain number sequence are the same models are probably wrong.