Telephoto for Safari? Panasonic 70-200 w 2x vs. Leica 90-280

[jaapv]

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Loo

35 minutes ago, ropo54 said:

The proposed itinerary for the visit that we are considering is below.  14 couples.  This is a 'private' tour being arranged by a friend. It might be subject to change, but do not know.  

_______________________________________

Capetown for 4 days, to include: Robben Island and Table Mountain;  Cape Point and Peninsula Town (Boulders Penguin Colony, Cape of Good Hope Nature Preserve, Kristenbosch National Botanical Garden); Cape Winelands Tour;

Kruger Safari @ Kampama River Lodge (4 game drives);

Johannesburg

Victoria Falls - Kingdom @ Victoria Falls Hotel; including Zambezi River sunset cruise

__________________________________________

I welcome thoughts and suggestions.

Rob

Looks like a very nice trip. I wouldn't go overboard for the Safari bit.  In the Kruger you won't go off-road, except on the lodge concession, but as the lodge is not a bush camp and offers managed game experiences (guide+tracker and a habituated elephants) you will get plenty of opportunities with relatively simple gear.

The trip will be a comfortable one with good infrastructure.

I would take a CL with 11-23, 18-56 and a fast (M) prime, plus a V-Lux 5 for the Safari bit and backup, nothing more. Most of your photography will be holiday documentation, albeit of a very nice holiday filled with experiences. Don't lumber yourself with all paraphernalia of your hobby, sit back, relax and enjoy. Don't forget binoculars.

One tip: South Africa has rather idiosyncratic electric plugs. Buy an adapter at the airport. And double up on chargers. Those tend to get left at hotels.

 

[fatihayoglu]

All taken with Nikon 300 f2.8 at max aperture or with 1.4TC at max aperture with D750 camera

All these can be taken with other systems, however to throw the surrounding you need shallow DOF.

Thank you

https://imgur.com/a/SX2uMRP

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by fatihayoglu

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[ropo54]

7 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Loo

Looks like a very nice trip. I wouldn't go overboard for the Safari bit.  In the Kruger you won't go off-road, except on the lodge concession, but as the lodge is not a bush camp and offers managed game experiences (guide+tracker and a habituated elephants) you will get plenty of opportunities with relatively simple gear.

The trip will be a comfortable one with good infrastructure.

I would take a CL with 11-23, 18-56 and a fast (M) prime, plus a V-Lux 5 for the Safari bit and backup, nothing more. Most of your photography will be holiday documentation, albeit of a very nice holiday filled with experiences. Don't lumber yourself with all paraphernalia of your hobby, sit back, relax and enjoy. Don't forget binoculars.

One tip: South Africa has rather idiosyncratic electric plugs. Buy an adapter at the airport. And double up on chargers. Those tend to get left at hotels.

 

Thank you, Jaap.  Rob

[jaapv]

15 minutes ago, fatihayoglu said:

All taken with Nikon 300 f2.8 at max aperture or with 1.4TC at max aperture with D750 camera

All these can be taken with other systems, however to throw the surrounding you need shallow DOF.

Thank you

https://imgur.com/a/SX2uMRP

 

Nice stuff, but I would stop down a bit. Anyway, I don't see a DOF difference between the 300/2.8 + 1.4x ( 4.0) and 280/4.2 on the CL (1.5x (also 4.2))

[fatihayoglu]

23 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Nice stuff, but I would stop down a bit. Anyway, I don't see a DOF difference between the 300/2.8 + 1.4x ( 4.0) and 280/4.2 on the CL (1.5x (also 4.2))

Thank you Jaap

[michali]

Rob- what time of year is this trip planned for?

 

[ajmarton1]

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7 hours ago, ropo54 said:

Thoughts on the Panasonic 70-200 with 2x extender versus the Leica 90-280 on the SL?  I'm in the midst of planning a trip to Africa and was wondering:

1, Would 400 mm.suffice on the long end?  

2. Panasonic with the 2x extender on the SL601 vs. the Leica 90-280 on the apsc sized Leica CL . . . image degradation with the Panasonic extender but full frame, or settle for APSC sized prints?

3. Or, better to buy into a Sony or Canon with  full frame with their 100-400mm options?

Thanks for comments and thoughts - on this topic, or any other related thoughts to consider.  Rob

I was recently in Singita, Kruger National Park.  I rented a Nikon D850 and f2.8 400mm lens.  I used my Leica for scenic shots.  That was a perfect combo.  You need a fast lens for low light in the morning and at dusk.  Less than 400mm will be a mistake.  Just my 2 cents.  

[ajmarton1]

The clarity of the Nikon 400mm f2.8.  This monkey was high up in a tree at least 30 yards away and I did not crop.  

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[lykaman]

12 minutes ago, ajmarton1 said:

I was recently in Singita, Kruger National Park.  I rented a Nikon D850 and f2.8 400mm lens.  I used my Leica for scenic shots.  That was a perfect combo.  You need a fast lens for low light in the morning and at dusk.  Less than 400mm will be a mistake.  Just my 2 cents.  

Great Decision Great Results...........L

[fatihayoglu]

30 minutes ago, ajmarton1 said:

I was recently in Singita, Kruger National Park.  I rented a Nikon D850 and f2.8 400mm lens.  I used my Leica for scenic shots.  That was a perfect combo.  You need a fast lens for low light in the morning and at dusk.  Less than 400mm will be a mistake.  Just my 2 cents.  

That was my plan as well but couldn't support 400 2.8 back then so had to rent 300 2.8 with extenders

[lykaman]

1 minute ago, fatihayoglu said:

That was my plan as well but couldn't support 400 2.8 back then so had to rent 300 2.8 with extenders

We ALL do the best we can............

[ropo54]

1 hour ago, michali said:

Rob- what time of year is this trip planned for?

 

Michali - Being planned for mid to late September. Rob

[ImmerDraussen]

Hi Rob,

I‘ve been a couple of times in ZA, Namibia and Botswana. Dust is a permanent issue in many places. I tried to avoid lens changes as much as possible. Therefore I prefer 2 bodies. The second issue there is often not enough light. The Panasonic Zoom plus converter will enforce you to work often at high ISO.
 

On my trips I used 2 Canon bodies, 100-400mm, 24-70mm, 2.8/300mm (with or without converter). Best shots with the 2,8/300, if the focal lenght fits.

Today having the choice to use Leica gear, I might select the S1r + 90-280mm  and the Sl with 24-90mm. The  Cl with a small lens can be useful, if you speak with people and ask for a portrait.

 

Andreas

 

 

[ropo54]

4 hours ago, ImmerDraussen said:

Hi Rob,

I‘ve been a couple of times in ZA, Namibia and Botswana. Dust is a permanent issue in many places. I tried to avoid lens changes as much as possible. Therefore I prefer 2 bodies. The second issue there is often not enough light. The Panasonic Zoom plus converter will enforce you to work often at high ISO.
 

On my trips I used 2 Canon bodies, 100-400mm, 24-70mm, 2.8/300mm (with or without converter). Best shots with the 2,8/300, if the focal lenght fits.

Today having the choice to use Leica gear, I might select the S1r + 90-280mm  and the Sl with 24-90mm. The  Cl with a small lens can be useful, if you speak with people and ask for a portrait.

 

Andreas

 

 

Thank you, Andreas. As a matter of curiosity, which Canon bodies did you take and was the 300 2.8 the newer version?  Thanks, Rob

[ImmerDraussen]

Hi Rob,

as the trips have been spread over severals years, the equipment has changed. For the last trip I had the 1dx and the 5DSr with me. Both lenses (100-400mm and the 2.8/300mm) have been the Mark II versions.
As I might to go back to Africa next year, I asked myself what gear to take with me. So I made a simple experiment in the garden. My target was to get a reasonable sharp picture on an 27´´ 5k iMac with crop that would get from an 800mm lens without cropping. In the race was:
 

• Leica SL with the 90-280mm
• 5DSr with the 100-400mm II
• 5DSr with the 2.8/300mm II with 2*converter
• 5DSr with the Tamron 150-600mm
   

All lensed shot wide open from a tripod.

The Leica picture was not really acceptable, because I had to crop it down to 4MPx. The Tamron was okay, but took no advantage from the 600mm. The winner was the 5DSr with the 100-400mm. The 2.8/300mm was close (this combo needs to be stopped down).

The reason to tell this is that a high resolution sensor with an excellent lens allows to have less weight with you. Therefore I´m very optimistic that an CL, an SL2 or the S1R in combination with the 80-280mm will deliver excellent results.

The Panasonic 4/80-200mm with converter most likely will also need 1 stop closed aperture. I can´t believe this will work fine under the condition of a safari.

Regards

 

Andreas

Enclosed a picture taken at home with SL+90-280mm  (not sure wether the forum will be excited about Canon picture shown here).

 

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[helged]

1 hour ago, ImmerDraussen said:

Hi Rob,

as the trips have been spread over severals years, the equipment has changed. For the last trip I had the 1dx and the 5DSr with me. Both lenses (100-400mm and the 2.8/300mm) have been the Mark II versions.
As I might to go back to Africa next year, I asked myself what gear to take with me. So I made a simple experiment in the garden. My target was to get a reasonable sharp picture on an 27´´ 5k iMac with crop that would get from an 800mm lens without cropping. In the race was:
 

• Leica SL with the 90-280mm
• 5DSr with the 100-400mm II
• 5DSr with the 2.8/300mm II with 2*converter
• 5DSr with the Tamron 150-600mm
   

All lensed shot wide open from a tripod.

The Leica picture was not really acceptable, because I had to crop it down to 4MPx. The Tamron was okay, but took no advantage from the 600mm. The winner was the 5DSr with the 100-400mm. The 2.8/300mm was close (this combo needs to be stopped down).

The reason to tell this is that a high resolution sensor with an excellent lens allows to have less weight with you. Therefore I´m very optimistic that an CL, an SL2 or the S1R in combination with the 80-280mm will deliver excellent results.

The Panasonic 4/80-200mm with converter most likely will also need 1 stop closed aperture. I can´t believe this will work fine under the condition of a safari.

Regards

 

Andreas

Enclosed a picture taken at home with SL+90-280mm  (not sure wether the forum will be excited about Canon picture shown here).

 

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Lynx 'taken at home'; now that's quite something 😉! At least where I live. In the wild?

[ImmerDraussen]

No it is captive in a park

[Printmaker]

On 11/3/2019 at 12:16 AM, jaapv said:

I was younger and stronger 135 was the most practical back then. Cameras and lenses were lighter and smaller too. Compare an R4 or Olympus OM with a full-frame  DSLR like the big Nikons. And we had no choice. I learnt my lesson the hard way. I once took a Mamiya 645 set on Safari.The longest lens was the 500 with 2xTEX. The few shots I got were brilliant. With the emphasis on few; never again.

My favoured gear was a Leica R4 (5,7),  Apo-Telyt 280/4.0 and the Apo-extenders. Before that? M3 or M4 with Visoflex3  and Telyt 400-V

The Safari experience has changed beyond recognition too. Whilst we went to simple, personal and bush-oriented camps, it is all about top-end tourist pampering now, or mass tourism, with nature only the backdrop.  Money speaks. It is really hard to find Safaris which  immerse you into the bush. Many places are becoming overrun. Night drives in South Luangwa for instance? A laser show of spotlight beams nowadays. And the animals are hassled and hide away. We had more than fifteen vehicles in the end on a Wild Dog sighting last week. In the Selous! 😲 Unheard of. They moved into the mud in the end, bogging down a fair number of Landcruisers

 

I just came back from three weeks in Kruger NP in South Africa. I took my M10, EVF, 180R with a 2X extender and a 135 Elmar. My wife took her Olympus with a 40-150. I found the 180/2xR was a huge waste of time and far too heavy. The 135 Elmar was perfect for 90% of the time. My wife loved her 40-150 and had a much higher success rate. We were very lucky and had several lions and a few leopards walk within petting distance from our car. Elephants, well I have a few stories there. Often a 35 mm lens would have been best. Same is true for giraffes and cape buffalo. 

When I go back I'll take an Olympus with a 300 mm lens and my M10 with 35 and 135. And I'll rent a Land Rover or Ford Ranger. The Mercedes that sweet girl at Avis upgraded me to was just too low for comfort when a bull elephant turned and took a few steps too close.

https://tomniblick.photoshelter.com/index

 

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[jaapv]

That’s the Kruger for you  

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Printmaker]

If you get the chance to do an early morning walk with a ranger, do so. My wife and I joined a lovely young French couple at 4:30 in the morning and went out with two armed rangers for a 8k hike. The ranger decided to teach us how to track elephants. He found the tracks of a big bull about an hour out. He measured the pad and calculated the elephant's height. Then he examined the depth of the elephant's front print. Then he pulled apart a dropping. Finally he anounced this was a large bull, say 2 1/2 meters at the shoulder, with massive tusks and probably was 55-60 years old. We caught up to this elephant an hour or so later.

The other ranger confessed later that this big tusker was named Geovanni and he passes by this path every week or so.

M10 135 elmar.

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