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nicci78

APS-C future strategy

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2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

 

- a kind of pro zoom : 16-60mm f/2.8-4 OIS

 

 
I'm sitting on the fence waiting for a pro zoom for the CL....and my butt hurts
I love everything about the CL /APC it could be my everything camera.
 
If I bought into this system. I would still be pulling out my heavy Full Frame Nikon for the 28~70 2.8 zoom.
I'm even considering SonyAPC  for their pro zoom.....OK not really!
 
I know we're in a dying market and Leica needs to be careful where invests its tech cash.
I'm good with the primes but it would be a perfect system with a Pro zoom.
 
The current zoom is the perfect travel Zoom which I suspect is where Leica positions this camera system.
 
I am terribly disappointed and I have terrible GAS but at this point in my life I don't want just another camera.
I want an everything system, which means:
 
At the top of my list a pro Zoom
Travel zooms
Macro
a couple fast primes
and a great sensor to "play" with a few off brand lenses.
 
Leica they say you read this forum?
Please give me a TL pro zoom and I buy everything else too.
 
 

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And they would had selled so much more T, Tl, TL2 and CL-cameras in the past, if only a professional 28-80 (FF) Zoom had been available.

The CL is such a good camera! It`s a petty.

Edited by DirkS

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I bought a CL with a 23mm. I loved it. I decided I really wanted an 18-56mm for travel. I saw a TL2 with a 18-56mm on Ebay for about the price of a new 18-56mm. Both were immaculate. I bought them, figuring I would sell the TL2. I did a little shooting with the TL2 and just love it. It feels so good in my hand. I was shocked because I have never shot without a viewfinder before. There is just something about the camera. Still, I need a EVF. Put an EVF on the TL3 and it is all that I need. I will admit I have a problem with the touchscreen, as I find my nose making changes it shouldn't. I can live with that, however. Just give me an EVF!

Also: Long OIS zoom would be nice. 

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The CL/APS-C line is a key strategy for Leica to provide a luxury interchangeable lens AF camera that is lightweight and small

It currently has 7 native lenses, 4 primes and 3 zooms covering most people's travel ranges

There is also an excellent 7artisans MF lens and a whole bunch of L-mount lenses

The roadmap for L-mount lenses is pretty impressive.

Sigma has indicated it might launch a range of APS-C lenses at some point, probably along with an APS-C type camera. As we know Sigma has alot of APS-C lenses for E and X mount, adapting them for L mount would be minimal work, but needs a reasonably sized market.

For me, Leica releasing a 23mm f1.4 and 14mm f2.8 or less would be perfect. An 18mm f1.4 would be icing on the cake.

I see there is a need above for a longer zoom lens. This is needed to round the range out IMHO

Lastly a mid range f2.8 zoom ? yum yum. Sony has just shown how to do an APS-C one that is admirably reasonably sized and lightweight. I live in hope .......

Lets see what happens.

 

 

 

Edited by colonel

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On 11/21/2019 at 1:18 PM, colonel said:

For me, Leica releasing a 23mm f1.4 and 14mm f2.8 or less would be perfect. An 18mm f1.4 would be icing on the cake.

+1.  I would probably immediately sell my SL.  I doubt whether it will ever happen though...

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On 11/21/2019 at 1:18 PM, colonel said:

Sigma has indicated it might launch a range of APS-C lenses at some point, probably along with an APS-C type camera. As we know Sigma has alot of APS-C lenses for E and X mount, adapting them for L mount would be minimal work, but needs a reasonably sized market.

Sigma said 2020 for the 16mm, 30mm and 56mm.  They actually have also just released those lenses for the EF-M mount

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There are folks here (including moi!) who see the CL partly as a 1.5x extender for R mount telephotos. IBIS would be a godsend. I'd prefer that to a larger sensor, but I'll take either.

I'm fine with the available lenses. I like that I have to fill in with M and R lenses. It's cool to have to do fully manual focusing at times. But to that end, I'd like a bigger EVF if possible. 

I fear I'm going to buy the SL2 unless I hear some solid rumors about the CL2. I need a CL group intervention!

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1 hour ago, lct said:

The CL2 won't be any larger hopefully. Those looking for bigger cameras and lenses should be happy with SL or SL2 :cool:.

Ict ,you know far more of Leica's MO than me

....So there no chance of a Pro Zoom for the CL  because its a travel camera?

Not making the CL a more "everything" system would lose me for Leica.

And I do love German Menu's ! But I do need an f/4  auto focus Zoom (at least 18 to 55 ...I'm flexible)

I believe it ....but I hate to believe, that a making slightly heaver normal Zoom, wouldn't sell more CL's for Leica?

I'm much more a CL guy than I am an SL guy for thousands of reasons. Leica is one Zoom away from the perfect camera system.

You really think this lens is not on their list?

Like I said you know more of Leica's  MO than me

 

Edited by ECohen

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10 minutes ago, ECohen said:

Ict ,you know far more of Leica's MO than me

....So there no chance of a Pro Zoom for the CL  because its a travel camera?

Not making the CL a more "everything" system would lose me for Leica.

And I do love German Menu's ! But I do need an f/4  auto focus Zoom (at least 18 to 55 ...I'm flexible)

I believe it ....but I hate to believe, that a making slightly heaver normal Zoom, wouldn't sell more CL's for Leica?

I'm much more a CL guy than I am an SL guy for thousands of reasons. Leica is one Zoom away from the perfect camera system.

You really think this lens is not on their list?

Like I said you know more of Leica's  MO than me

 

I don't understand. There are 3 really excellent TL zooms, including an 18-56.. If you don't mind "heavy," the L zooms are incredible. And then Panasonic is producing excellent L mount zooms. What about these doesn't work for you?

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1 hour ago, bags27 said:

I don't understand. There are 3 really excellent TL zooms, including an 18-56.. If you don't mind "heavy," the L zooms are incredible. And then Panasonic is producing excellent L mount zooms. What about these doesn't work for you?

LUMIX S 24-105mm F4 L-Mount Lens - S-R24105

and all the features work with a CL? I’ll look into it but I’ve always felt that a lens made by the manufacture had better color worked better generally had no connection problems. But that is an old fashion philosophy of mine.

 

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7 hours ago, ECohen said:

Ict ,you know far more of Leica's MO than me

....So there no chance of a Pro Zoom for the CL  because its a travel camera?

Not making the CL a more "everything" system would lose me for Leica.

And I do love German Menu's ! But I do need an f/4  auto focus Zoom (at least 18 to 55 ...I'm flexible)

I believe it ....but I hate to believe, that a making slightly heaver normal Zoom, wouldn't sell more CL's for Leica?

I'm much more a CL guy than I am an SL guy for thousands of reasons. Leica is one Zoom away from the perfect camera system.

You really think this lens is not on their list?

Like I said you know more of Leica's  MO than me

I know very little about TL/SL lenses as i only use manual lenses on my digital CL but some compact APS-C lenses could interest me if i needed AF eventually. I'm not sure if Leica is able or willing to do that though.  

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On 11/21/2019 at 7:18 PM, colonel said:

The roadmap for L-mount lenses is pretty impressive.

 

L mount is not a problem. It is just that TL line up is lame. 
APO-Summicron-SL are quite big for CL. Really borderline. 
Just look at Summilux-TL 35  faster, lighter and smaller than APO-Summicron-SL 35. 
If we use SL lenses, we are losing a lot of convenience. 
 

Lumix S lenses are silly big when mounted with CL. 

Sigma prefers to cater Canon users rather than the members of its own alliance. A shame. 

Panasonic will never releases APS-C lenses. They are not stupid enough to compete with their own m4/3 lineup. 

And now Leica is too lazy to even bother releasing any TL lens in the last 2 years. Even worst the last one was pretty bad  ! 😓


 


 

 

Edited by nicci78

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1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

L mount is not a problem. It is just that TL line up is lame. 
APO-Summicron-SL are quite big for CL. Really borderline. 
Just look at Summilux-TL 35  faster, lighter and smaller than APO-Summicron-SL 35. 
If we use SL lenses, we are losing a lot of convenience. 
 

Lumix S lenses are silly big when mounted with CL. 

Sigma prefers to cater Canon users rather than the members of its own alliance. A shame. 

Panasonic will never releases APS-C lenses. They are not stupid enough to compete with their own m4/3 lineup. 

And now Leica is too lazy to even bother releasing any TL lens in the last 2 years. Even worst the last one was pretty bad  ! 😓


 


 

 

Have you tried the Summicron-SL lenses on the CL? I find the 90mm well balanced and readily usable. Sure, you're wasting a bit of light, but I certainly don't find it too large or heavy. I agree the SL zooms are OTT on the CL, but not the primes. Tempted though I have been by the 35mmTL, I'm more likely now to consider the 35mmSL, so it can also be used on the SL body (and Sigma fp).

Edited by LocalHero1953

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Not exactly sure why anyone needs APS-C specific lenses, all the others work just fine, produce excellent pictures, etc etc etc .... and this includes using M and R lenses on the CL. Yes, the crop factor can be a pain to remember at times when I take a full frame camera with me as well, always have to take one more wider lens. Leica views this camera as a high end non-pro version of the SL2 (not the SL, getting 24/APS-C), for the amateur. I take some offense to that, but then again they have to market the SL2 as a pro camera to get pros and wannabes to buy in to the premium product. In truth, there is nothing un-pro about the CL. It has always been true the larger the negative (sensor) the better the result for product and fashion photography and making wall sized pics. My wife isn't keen on any one of my pictures taking up the whole wall. Anyway, my 2 cents on the subject.

 

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3 reasons why we need dedicated APS-C lenses

Wide angle : they cannot be obtain through full frame lenses. 

Size : Leica, Panasonic and Sigma decided to make all full frame lens über big. They said it is perfection. But I still stand that it is pure laziness. Of course it is easy to make a nice full frame lens when you make a medium format one and sell it as a 24x36. 🤥

Price APO-Summicron-SL cost twice as much as Summilux-TL one. 

Edited by nicci78

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Indeed, i don't buy APS bodies to use big lenses and i'm not sure to comprehend the rationale (if any) behind that. Not that big a problem with manual lenses, although i still miss fast compact wides on APS format. But all AF Leica lenses are bulky in FF format and it can be a real concern for AF users IMHO.

 

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I mix TL, M, and R lenses on my CL, and don't feel any of this frustration. Quite the contrary. It's not a perfect, self-enclosed system, but the very fact that you have to make decisions is part of the creative process. Voigtlander offers great ultra wide options, even with the CL's 1.5 multiplier. They're pretty light because they're slow, but slow is okay at that focal length. 

As to Leica not developing more TL lenses, do we know the number of CL and TL2 cameras being sold? Unless body sales are very robust, they would lose a lot developing more lenses. Even the costs of L mount lenses, which sell for 2-3 x what TL lenses sell for, are being sharply controlled for efficiency, with standardized shells regardless of focal length.

 

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6 minutes ago, lct said:

Indeed, i don't buy APS bodies to use big lenses and i'm not sure to comprehend the rationale (if any) behind that. Not that big a problem with manual lenses, although i still miss fast compact wides on APS format. But all AF Leica lenses are bulky in FF format and it can be a real concern for AF users IMHO.

 

And using the 35 M on the CL is just a wonderful all-day companion in terms of form and function -- or the elmarit 28 if one wants a 35 (that lens is now a permanent fixture on my CL, prefer a 35mm FOV of late ). Those other lenses just aren't necessary (for me at least) and I much prefer the  CL OOC pics with the M or R lenses, especially the older ones.

 

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3 minutes ago, sblitz said:

And using the 35 M on the CL is just a wonderful all-day companion in terms of form and function -- or the elmarit 28 if one wants a 35 (that lens is now a permanent fixture on my CL, prefer a 35mm FOV of late ). Those other lenses just aren't necessary (for me at least) and I much prefer the  CL OOC pics with the M or R lenses, especially the older ones.

 

+1

I just stuck a M35 on my CL and love what I see. I bought that instead of an 28 f/2.8, and it was a close call. I suspect I'll have that as well soon. These great Mandler and Karbe lenses are like paintbrushes. I do have 2 TL zooms, which are terrific, but they are serviceable, while the Ms and Rs really make me think. A poor man's (and getting poorer the longer I'm on this forum!) digital M but with an EVF.

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