Vertical DIY rangefinder adjustment?

[insomnigraphic]

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My M10’s RF focus is accurate but the vertical alignment in the patch is a hair off, bothering my eye. I understand that this can be adjusted with a hex, but I’d love confirmation which point is responsible for the vertical alignment. 
 

Forgive me if this is covered on here, but I couldn’t find this exact info in an existing thread. THANKS!

[adan]

VERTICAL alignment cannot be done with a hex wrench (aka Allen wrench).

Vertical adjustment requires removing the red dot on the camera front (or the large cosmetic screw on M10-Ps) - and a specialized tool that (roughly speaking) levers something inside the top plate up and down.

The tool has been "approximated" successfully by some people by taking a tiny flat-blade screwdriver and filing down half the tip to form an L-shape.

https://www.photo.net/discuss/threads/m6-vertical-adjustment-diy-special-enjoy.341352/

It is the infinity distance alignment that can be adjusted with a 2mm hex - and the "point responsible" is a hex screw in the middle of the camera's roller inside the lens mount that follows the lens focus movement.

https://jakehornphotography.com/blog/2016/8/26/leica-m-a-calibration

Edited October 25, 2019 by adan

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[insomnigraphic]

Thank you!! I’ll likely chill on this for now, unless I run into someone who has done it before. I’m in DC

[Fgcm]

22 hours ago, adan said:

VERTICAL alignment cannot be done with a hex wrench (aka Allen wrench).

No, the vertical alignment of the rangefinder of the M10 can be adjusted with a common hex key. The special tool is required for older cameras.

Before adjusting, put a small drop of acetone on the screw to soften the glue. A very small drop.

 

[Rob L]

To further elaborate; the older Ms like the M3, M2 & M4 used a small screw driver to remove the front screw and to adjust the vertical, very easy. Then they switched to the special tool, I'm guessing with the M4-P, but not sure, whichever camera was the first with the Red Dot, rather than the screw.

This was a pain because the mechanism inside the rangefinder relied on friction between two sliding surfaces and a low tack locktite substance or similar to stay in adjustment and this seal had to be broken to make the adjustment. The tool simply applied leverage to the two sliding surfaces and made them move relative to one another, if that makes sense. Crappy set-up, but thankfully, for whatever reason (more care or skill during assembly?), none of my M6 cameras have ever needed vertical adjustment. This system continues to this day with the MP and MA and to compound a really poor design, the special tool does not fit through the retro screw hole in these cameras ( the reason for the Red Dot in the first place!) The top plate has to be removed to adjust the vertical on MPs and MAs, reason enough for me to avoid these two cameras ( along with price) in favor of a clean M3, 4 or 6. The new system on digital Ms goes back to a threaded adjustment or cam rather than the sliding surfaces and uses an Allen wrench.

[Daedalus2000]

On 10/26/2019 at 4:14 PM, Fgcm said:

No, the vertical alignment of the rangefinder of the M10 can be adjusted with a common hex key. The special tool is required for older cameras.

Before adjusting, put a small drop of acetone on the screw to soften the glue. A very small drop.

 

Are there any instructions on how to do that for the M10?

[Fgcm]

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On 12/4/2019 at 12:43 PM, Daedalus2000 said:

Are there any instructions on how to do that for the M10?

Remove the red dot rotating it with two wooden toothpick, put a small drop of acetone on the screw to soften the glue.

Wait one minute, then rotate the screw with a allen key while looking into the viewfinder. The perfect vertical alignment is very apparent, because the contrast peaks up to the maximum. 

Attach a piece of two sided tape on the back of the red dot and place it  into its position.

Easier to do than to write.

[Daedalus2000]

1 hour ago, Fgcm said:

Remove the red dot rotating it with two wooden toothpick, put a small drop of acetone on the screw to soften the glue.

Wait one minute, then rotate the screw with a allen key while looking into the viewfinder. The perfect vertical alignment is very apparent, because the contrast peaks up to the maximum. 

Attach a piece of two sided tape on the back of the red dot and place it  into its position.

Easier to do than to write.

Thank you, I will try it

[Daedalus2000]

So it was easier than I thought. Thanks for your help

I have the black screw on the front (not the red log), so that was very easy to remove (carefully so I do not scratch it or lose it)

Then I saw the screw inside the body. I did not use the acetone, because I did not have any, but when I used what I think is a 2.5mm allen key, I was able to turn it easily. I tried a few rotations and now the vertical alignment is good. I screwed the black screw back to the camera body and all is good. I need to learn more about the horizontal alignment now.

Thanks again.

[Fgcm]

9 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

So it was easier than I thought. Thanks for your help

I have the black screw on the front (not the red log), so that was very easy to remove (carefully so I do not scratch it or lose it)

Then I saw the screw inside the body. I did not use the acetone, because I did not have any, but when I used what I think is a 2.5mm allen key, I was able to turn it easily. I tried a few rotations and now the vertical alignment is good. I screwed the black screw back to the camera body and all is good. I need to learn more about the horizontal alignment now.

Thanks again.

You are welcome.

If you have any prblem with horizontal alignment, feel free to ask. 

[peterm1_Leica]

My M8 was a tiny bit off so, after deliberating on the best way to get it done, I bit the bullet and bought the special tool needed for alter M series cameras. It is a thin rod that has an offset "prong" ( a bit like a single tyne fork)  on the end of it that rotates to move the image up or down. It's a pain as the tiniest of tiny movements moves the image more than you want, but in my case after 20 minutes of trial and error I got it spot on, as I imagine most people will- eventually. It is a job that I would describe as technically simple but practically difficult. The tool which is made in china was not Cheap but is cheaper than hiring an technician to do it for you which is why I went down this route. Whether you can be bothered is another matter but I did find it helped me find focus better so whether it is done by the owner or a tech it's worth doing IMHO. 

[Daedalus2000]

20 hours ago, Fgcm said:

You are welcome.

If you have any prblem with horizontal alignment, feel free to ask. 

Thank you.

I had some problems with the horizontal alignment as well, so what I did was to use a allen key to adjust one of the screws that I could see in the lens mount. I think it is the one that adjusts the infinity setup. Now all my lenses are ok, expect my Voigtlander 40 1.2 which is off a bit (at f1.2). Before the adjustment the 40 1.2 seemed ok but all other lenses were off. So, I am not sure if I can have all of them working fine if I adjust something else, or if I should just accept that the 40 f1.2 will be a bit off.

Another thing that worried me is that in this web page http://leica.nemeng.com/034b.shtml it says "DO NOT PUSH AGAINST THE RANGEFINDER ARM". I am not sure why it says that and if it is really a big problem, but in order to rotate the screw I had to push it in a bit to get some stability. I have not see any negative effects, but if you can advise me why this may be a problem, or any link to more detailed instructions for adjusting the horizontal alignment, it would be great.

I have to say, I used to be very worried about the rangefinder being off, but now that I was able to "correct" it myself I feel more relaxed about having an M camera. It feels good to have more control over your camera. 

Thanks again.

 

[Fgcm]

11 hours ago, Daedalus2000 said:

 

Another thing that worried me is that in this web page http://leica.nemeng.com/034b.shtml it says "DO NOT PUSH AGAINST THE RANGEFINDER ARM".

 

He is referring to older cameras which had common screws, to be adjusted with a common screwdriver. If you push, you bend the arm. With an Allen key, any damage is very unlikely and a perfect adjustment is easier, because the key is longer and stays in position. 
of course, while adjusting, the arm rotate slightly, but this is not a problem at all.

 

[adan]

I can also confirm that my post #2 is incorrect for the M10. Live and learn.

I just fixed the vertical RF alignment on an M10 with a 2mm Allen tool (same size used for the infinity alignment - well-thought-out new design from Leica).

Fgcm's posts are correct - although I didn't even need any acetone, either to remove the red dot or to loosen the internal adjustment screw.

 

[mirekti]

37 minutes ago, adan said:

I can also confirm that my post #2 is incorrect for the M10. Live and learn.

I just fixed the vertical RF alignment on an M10 with a 2mm Allen tool (same size used for the infinity alignment - well-thought-out new design from Leica).

Fgcm's posts are correct - although I didn't even need any acetone, either to remove the red dot or to loosen the internal adjustment screw.

 

Did you use a toothpick? Any advice on the methodology of removing it?

[adan]

Tried toothpicks - they broke. Tried fingernails - they slipped.

Finally rolled the dice and carefully used a tiny jewelers' screwdriver tip to press on the raised lettering from the side and rotate or "twist" the dot back and forth around its center to pull the glue loose. No acetone or solvent used.

The soft plastic of the logo actually held onto the srewdriver tip enough to prevent it slipping and scratching the surrounding chrome - but I did put a fingertip opposite the screwdriver as a "backstop," just in case.(Better a punctured finger than a punctured Leica ).

A little left, a little right and then it just broke free and turned 150° and would shift enough to get the screwdriver tip under it and lift it out.

Once adjusted, just pressed it back into place on the remaining glue "jelly" - it stuck fine

Since I tape over my dots anyway with black or silver tape, that makes it double-sure the replaced dot won't pop out at some point.

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[Selador]

Hello all,

Has anyone removed the cover screw on any of the digital P models, scratching it in the process (seemed like it scratched on the instant the screwdriver made contact, ugh) and replaced it? Does anyone know if Wetzlar supplies that piece, and its cost?

Thanks!

[onasj]

12 hours ago, Selador said:

Hello all,

Has anyone removed the cover screw on any of the digital P models, scratching it in the process (seemed like it scratched on the instant the screwdriver made contact, ugh) and replaced it? Does anyone know if Wetzlar supplies that piece, and its cost?

Thanks!

I used a plastic screwdriver and there was no damage. I’m optimistic your dealer can get you a replacement screw.

[insomnigraphic]

On 12/6/2019 at 8:21 AM, Fgcm said:

Remove the red dot rotating it with two wooden toothpick, put a small drop of acetone on the screw to soften the glue.

Wait one minute, then rotate the screw with a allen key while looking into the viewfinder. The perfect vertical alignment is very apparent, because the contrast peaks up to the maximum. 

Attach a piece of two sided tape on the back of the red dot and place it  into its position.

Easier to do than to write.

Thank you SO MUCH! I just did it in five minutes, of which three were getting the dot off. All lined up now after less than a quarter turn. Amazing.

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[insomnigraphic]

On 12/7/2019 at 4:33 PM, Daedalus2000 said:

I have to say, I used to be very worried about the rangefinder being off, but now that I was able to "correct" it myself I feel more relaxed about having an M camera. It feels good to have more control over your camera. 

Thanks again.

 

This is exactly how I feel! I was getting annoyed that every Leica employee said "send it in", when I truly suspected it was easy. I don't want the camera I take around the world to be such a delicate jewel that I'm not supposed to do the basic things myself.

Thanks again. And if the horizontal goes off I will be right back here (since I'm out of warranty anyway).