M8, SA 3,4 21mm R, Lei-F R to LTM adaptor, and ...too short

[crow]

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Hi everyone,

bough an SA 3,4 in R mount.

It's too short for a Leica M8, at f3,4.

I bought a Lei-F adaptor that screws right in the Leitz LtM to M adaptor so,

F- should stand for LtM(?). The R side of this adaptor fits right on the male rear side of the SA lens.

Seems the adaptor has the right female threads, but,

flange is too short. as you know this is the longest rear element R lens and just hits the curtain on my M8. Won't even try it on my M5(with the CADMIUM METER INSIDE).

I thought of the LTM ring I have for the Leitz enlarger lens but focusing comes out blured. It's about 25mm thick or so.

Any ideas how thick of a male to male double sided LTM extension ring I should be looking for on Ebay?

 

I am aware of the idea that an SA with the extreme foreshortening properties of its elements design will only execute this on a full frame, but before I try it on my M5, or IIIA, or A7, I'd like to

solve the above, so let's skip the thought. Don't take this into consideration.

Thanks,

Edited October 24, 2019 by crow

[lct]

The Novoflex "LEI-F" adapter seems to be made for bellows according to B&H (link). Perhaps it is too thin for use on LTM cameras i don't know. To mount R lenses on M bodies one needs a "Leica R-Adapter M" (14642) normally or a Novoflex "LEM/LER" adapter. Being expensive adapters i would ask Leica or Novoflex before ordering them as the R 21/3.4 is a rare lens from the sixties which protrudes deeply into the body.

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[farnz]

You're trying to use a R (reflex) lens on a Rangefinder body so you'll need to use a Visoflex III between the two.  Your 21/3.4 Super-Angulon-R lens is not rangefinder coupled so even if you could mount it directly onto your M8 you'd need to use zone focus/guesswork to focus on the subject.  The Visoflex III would turn your M8 into a SLR with a flip mirror that will allow you to focus on the subject using the Super-Angulon-R's focus ring.

The Novoflex LEI-F adaptor allows Leica R lenses to be mounted to the Leica bellows but to use the bellows you'll still need to also use a Visoflex III.  

The 14642 adaptor will enable you to mount your Super-Angulon-R to your M8 but since the M8 is a CCD camera and doesn't have LiveView you would still  need to use zone focus/guesswork to focus on the subject.

Pete.

[crow]

Thanks for the answers.

Yes I am aware of zone focusing.

I've used a Pentacon M42 29mm on an M8, zone focusing with excellent results. Couple of efforts will do the trick.

The 21mm must have a deeper field so it should be easier to zone focus.

I went ahead and ordered a Fed series of macro rings. I have a hint the shorter one, screwed on the novo I own, may work.

I also owned a Voigtlander /Cosina 25mm/4 which wasn't coupled either, and worked fine. Of course 3,4 is different than f 4,

but if I did it with a 29mm it will work easier with the 21mm. The M8 is sharper than the sony A7, even though half the pixels, no live view.

How did the old photographers make it, before coupled rf lenses and slr's came out?

So, shorter LTM or M39(a bit of a difference in threading)macro rings may do the job.

I am so confident I even haven't calculated flanges. It's either going to work or not.

I wouldn't add a viso on a 10mpx camera. If the M8 had first came out as a medium format 20mpx camera, in the year it did as a 10mpx camera,

I would buy a viso III, so I could document paintings with the necessary degree of detail.

But for photography's sake, 10mpx is fine, with or without coupled lenses.The SA offers extreme foreshortening, the Voigtlander doesn't and is harsher and of much lower quality.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by crow

[tobey bilek]

If you keep screwing around, you may get lucky.   Get the proper Novoflex adapter.

Wide angles do not foreshorten.  ALL LENSES used from the SAME POSITION will be exactly the same if you crop the wide to longer focals.

 

[crow]

With regards to the adapter I went ahead and bought a Fotodiox R to M. No time to screw around.

The 21mm/3,4 focuses very close compared to other wide angle lenses. If you put a face so near it will foreshorten the part(s) closer to the lens.

 

[a.noctilux]

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8 minutes ago, crow said:

With regards to the adapter I went ahead and bought a Fotodiox R to M. No time to screw around.

The 21mm/3,4 focuses very close compared to other wide angle lenses. If you put a face so near it will foreshorten the part(s) closer to the lens.

 

20cm from film/sensor plane, that is close.

Distortion is normal for this such wide and so close 😉.

Portrait at this setting is kind of caricaturist work.

[jaapv]

On 12/19/2019 at 5:02 AM, tobey bilek said:

If you keep screwing around, you may get lucky.   Get the proper Novoflex adapter.

Wide angles do not foreshorten.  ALL LENSES used from the SAME POSITION will be exactly the same if you crop the wide to longer focals.

 

Completely right: only camera-subject distance affects perspective.

As for adapters: you must use an adapter (combination) that puts the lens at the proper distance from the film/sensor. otherwise is will not focus to infinity and -as you note- interfere with the shutter and/or M5 meter. Except for the Hologon, which was a mirror-up lens.

[crow]

There is a difficulty in using this SA 21mm/f3,4 R lens on an M camera. And that is not only the physical one, meaning the adaptor, being careful not to hit a mirror, sensor, or damaging any other part. This is focusing correctly. There is no point using an rf unless you achieve what is really capable of: point sharpness. I think I will try to get a Leicaflex Standard, and settle with the Sony A7 due to live view. I prefer the M8's 10 mpx resolution to to the A7's 24, but for an R lens, how ever great the depth of field, I am not willing to waist my M8's shutter life shooting each subject x4 in order to get it focused right-why make things difficult? No live view, not coupled, the only option to focus is distance guessing (they say because the rear part is recessed, you can use the viewfinder of the Leicaflex Standard to actually focus; is this true?).

But, I am satisfied that this "R" version is a tad sharper than it's "M" counterpart. For now the R will be more than fine. 

 

Edited January 1, 2020 by crow
added something

[farnz]

34 minutes ago, crow said:

I think I will try to get a Leicaflex Standard, and settle with the Sony A7 due to live view.

I think that's a far better solution.

Pete.

[crow]

Yeap,

anyone used a Standard, with the mirror locked for the 21, so I find out how good of a viw do I get with one of these through the finder? 

[crow]

The SA 21/3,4 works well with the M8.

Because of the depth of field, even at 3,4 shots are sharp, no extra effort taken.

Scale focussing is no problem with this lens.

It's easier to scale focus than the Voigtlander 25/4.