35mm framelines

[startover]

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Hi, just wondering if I am in the minority in terms of finding it hard to look through the viewfinder and frame my images with a 35mm lens, wearing my glasses.  Is there a way to "de-magnify" the viewfinder so the image is fully seen? ... note: my eyes are an extra centimeter away on account of my spectacles.

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[startover]

One more point.  I am trying to avoid getting an accessory finder or a diopter adjustment.  What would be ideal is if there is a 0.8x viewfinder de-magnifier.

[TomB_tx]

Many do have trouble with glasses, which is why Leica offered options for lower mag viewfinders on some film models. I have no difficulty with 35, but I've worn glasses full time for 60+ years and used Leica M's since 1968 so I've had practice. However, the 28 framelines are too wide for me.

With the M10, of course, you can use the Visoflex 020 EVF for live view, which is how I use a 21mm now. Not ideal, but it works. I don't know of a diopter solution.

With enough use you also learn to approximate the frame you can't quite see (I do for a 28). The M10 framelines aren't that exact anyway, so a bit of cropping is normal.

 

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, TomB_tx said:

The M10 framelines aren't that exact anyway, so a bit of cropping is normal.

 

No M frame lines are exact; they’re optimized for a specified distance, which for the M10 is 2m (like the M240 and M8.2; the M9 at 1m; and M8 at .7m). Framing at closer or farther distances requires user adjustment and practice. Separately, the focus patch on all M’s is set at a virtual distance of 2m, which also needs to be considered for best vision.

The M10 viewfinder does have a bigger opening with better eye relief for eyeglass users, although with a higher magnification than earlier models.

For the OP, if not already done, consider thin, flexible frames that allow one to press closer to the VF (with the thinnest possible and scratch resistant lenses). I wear glasses (for astigmatism and distance) AND still benefit from a +.5 diopter.  Works for me, but each person needs to find their own preferred solution.

Jeff

[lct]

1 hour ago, startover said:

Is there a way to "de-magnify" the viewfinder so the image is fully seen? 

There is a 0.85x magnifier here. I have no experience with it though.

Edited October 12, 2019 by lct

[bayernfan]

No experience with the M10, but I use a Leica diopter for my M240.   I simply lift my glasses onto my head to take a photograph.

[adan]

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I note the de-magnifier ("minifier?") linked by lct may not fit the M10 easily - it says it is for the old-diameter eyepiece ("M240 back to M3"). Maybe they have added ones in the new M10 size, though. (EDIT: Actually there is one for the M10 - via a different site: https://www.popflash.com/ECLYPSEEYE34-MX )

Anyway, one of the features of the M10 is already a larger finder eyepiece, allowing a "higher eyepoint" for glasses-wearers than previous models. But at the same time they increased the magnification and frameline area quite a bit, which neutralizes that somewhat. I'd say the 35mm lines are just visible to me, and the 28 lines useless (thus I use my 28 on a dedicated body with external finder).

Not much else to say. One thing about Leica Ms is - you learn to do things Leica's way. Not overly friendly design for left-eye viewers; not friendly to glasses wearers. I just sort of "gestalt" everything (the whole thing) I can see through an M finder, and the framing comes out at least as accurate as with the 35mm lines.

[Infantasy]

5 hours ago, startover said:

Hi, just wondering if I am in the minority in terms of finding it hard to look through the viewfinder and frame my images with a 35mm lens, wearing my glasses.  Is there a way to "de-magnify" the viewfinder so the image is fully seen? ... note: my eyes are an extra centimeter away on account of my spectacles.

I wear glasses too and experienced the same as you. I always frame a little bit tilted when using 35 but none on 50. Hope to see any suggestion or hints here.

[startover]

Thanks all.  I realize that some aspects of this have been discussed elsewhere in the form, so I appreciate your perspectives on my specific question.

adan and Ict, it is unclear if the 0.85x refers to a decrease or an increase in the default M10 magnification (0.73x).  I clearly do not want it going from 0.73x to 0.85x.  I wonder if anyone has experience using the product on an M10.

[mujk]

I have the same problem. Adjusting the spectacles so that they get closer to the eye helps somewhat.

A viewfinder magnifier that increases the overall magnification of the viewfinder has a magnification greater than 1, e.g. 1.25x or 1.4x. Leica manufactures magnifiers of this type.

If the magnification is less than 1, the magnifier will decrease the overall magnification of the viewfinder and, hopefully, make it easier to see the outer frame lines. The reviews I have encountered on magnifiers of this type have not been particularly positive, not only because of the decreased rangefinder accuracy caused by the lower magnification. Maybe the reason why Leica doesn't make them?

[Gobert]

No problem here. I am using standard viewfinder, no magnification.

[lct]

1 hour ago, startover said:

t is unclear if the 0.85x refers to a decrease or an increase in the default M10 magnification (0.73x)

A decrease so the resultant magnification should be 0.62x i guess but i have no experience with it. Will reduce the RF's accuracy that is based on magnification anyway.

[Jeff S]

I’d rather have the added magnification the M10 provides and just learn to adjust to the frame lines, which are only accurate at one distance anyway.  The FOV for 35mm, a common lens on the M, becomes second nature.  

In any event, always best to experiment; nobody can speak for your own vision, experience and comfort level.

Jeff

[UliWer]

The visibility of the frames for 35mm depends on the distance between your eye and the viewfinder. When the distance is too large the frames disappear completely. Different spectacles and different anatomy may result in some people having no problems with 35mm frames and others having a lot.

As the M 2 has a metal collar for the finder‘s eyepiece I put on a soft sticker to avoid scratching my glasses. Though the sticker adds perhaps 0.5 to 1mm to the distance between the eye and the finder and the frames for 35mm seem to be considerably wider and less easy to overview than the M10‘s frames. 

Perhaps Leica could offer a solution for people who have problems with the frames’ width by reducing the thickness of the plastic collar around the eyepiece by half. 
 

 

 

[mujk]

I put a rubber gasket around the collar on my M6TTL because the edge of the collar scratched my glasses. Prevents them from touching the edge but does not increase the distance. No need for this on the M9 or M10.

 

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[jkcampbell2]

I've never used the Match Technical eyepiece and the .85 reduction would seem to be perfect for glasses wearers. The problem, at least from the photos, is that the lens and the rubber eye cup add about 1/2 inch of eye relief, seems to defeat the purpose. It reduces the magnification but moves your eye further from the viewfinder. I too struggle with wearing glasses and seeing the 35 framelines. My solution is to simply take off my glasses when shooting, using a lanyard around my neck so I can take them off quickly without having to put them in a pocket or hold on to them while shooting. I also worked with my eye doctor to try different diopters to make everything through the viewfinder crisper when I'm not wearing my glasses. Turned out the best sharpness was no diopter and no glasses. As least I saved a lot of money on Leica correction lens but I still have to deal with taking my glasses off. Cheers, jc