Difference in quality between Leitz Canada and German lenses?

[grahamc]

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1 minute ago, lct said:

Interesting indeed. I have a German made 50/2 v4 in as new condition that does not feel plasticky at all. My German made 35/2 v4's are earlier than yours (3453*** & 3553***) but both has been CLA'd recently, this is perhaps an explanation.

OK thanks yes that is encouraging about the serial numbers , thanks.

By coincidence rather than intent, my 35:2 v4 and 50:2 v4 set are both 363**** serials 

Sorry to clarify, the 'plastic' comment I made about the 50:2 v4 was in relation to the overall build design including outer barrel etc .   My 50:2 v4 is very clicky in the aperture so I wasn't referring to that, just the overall aesthetic .      

This pair is extremely light though of course 

 

[derleicaman]

Here’s an image of the helicoid of my German v4 lens. Serial in the 3606xxx range. No plastic here. I did not take a picture of the lens cell, which is metal, no plastic. 

I changed out the original plastic focus tab for a metal one I got on Etsy. It matches the focus tabs on recent lenses like the 28/2.8 ASPH 

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[derleicaman]

Here’s the lens with the new metal tab installed

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[grahamc]

41 minutes ago, derleicaman said:

Here’s the lens with the new metal tab installed

 

Thanks , that really looks great 

[Capuccino-Muffin]

14 hours ago, derleicaman said:

Here’s an image of the helicoid of my German v4 lens. Serial in the 3606xxx range. No plastic here. I did not take a picture of the lens cell, which is metal, no plastic. 

I changed out the original plastic focus tab for a metal one I got on Etsy. It matches the focus tabs on recent lenses like the 28/2.8 ASPH 

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No helicoid ever is made from plastic. The plastic part is the aperture mechanism, and there is a high chance that it’s plastic.

[derleicaman]

45 minutes ago, Capuccino-Muffin said:

No helicoid ever is made from plastic. The plastic part is the aperture mechanism, and there is a high chance that it’s plastic.

I realize no helicoid is ever made of plastic, at least on Leica lenses. I did not mean to misspeak. I was speaking of the lens assembly that screws into the female helicoid in the lens body on the German version. In the earlier Canadian v4 lenses, as you can see in this image below, the helicoid assembly is on the left which is made of metal, with the lens cell assembly on the right. The plastic (polycarbonate) parts of this assembly can be clearly seen here. It is lighter gray compared to the rest of the unit. It has fine threads which screw into the helicoid assembly. This is it's weak point. This can be overtorqued by using the lens hood for leverage while mounting and dismounting the lens. You end up with a cock-eyed hood on the lens, or worse, you shear it off completely.

The aperture mechanism on the Canadian v4, not shown here, is also made out of plastic. This is what gives the click stops by the spring loaded ball bearing going into the depressions on that plastic ring. This ring has been known to fail as well.

On the German v4 that I took apart, there is no visible plastic on the lens assembly unit, or for the aperture ring either. I regret not having made an image of that part of the lens when I had it disassembled. I have also studied the technical cutaway drawings of both versions of the 35 v4 Summicron lens. I do not have access to those drawings at this point, but it is very clear which are the polycarbonate parts on the Canadian version. In the cutaway drawing of the German version, it is also clear that there are no plastic parts indicated.

In its efforts to make the M and lenses less expensive to make, Canada also made some internal parts of the M4-2 and M4-P in plastic. One of these was the mounting of the PC and Bulb sockets on the back of the camera. This part could esily fail and you would have a loose flash contact as a result. Other parts were made with plastic as well. I am sure DAG could fill us in on this. By the same token, Japanese makers used plastic components extensively with better seemingly better results. This was the trend back in those days. Today, most cameras, even the "professional" models feel like plastic pieces of crap. Leica on the other hand, has retained mostly if not all metal construction, which have a much higher percieved feel of quality.

[edstock]

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I have my 75 f1.4, Canada, and have used it for years, no problems. This lens ranks with Mandler's other legendary lens, the Noctilux Canadian. 

[rickKop]

How can I tell if my lens is from German, Japan or Canada?  I remember when I bought it that it was from Canada, but it doesn't say Canada anywhere on it

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[andybarton]

You can rule out Japan. 
 

There are lots of resources that will tell you the age and origin of any Leica lens. 

[a.noctilux]

1 hour ago, rickKop said:

How can I tell if my lens is from German, Japan or Canada?  I remember when I bought it that it was from Canada, but it doesn't say Canada anywhere on it

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Wetzlar or Canada, may not be that important

enjoy your lens

From Wiki version "III"

3205801

3206800

28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M (13-83+ELC)

1982

1000

3245101	3246100	28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M	1982	1000
3276401	3277400	28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M (ELW)	1983	1000
3293401	3294400	28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M	1983	1000

[Erato]

2 hours ago, rickKop said:

How can I tell if my lens is from German, Japan or Canada?  I remember when I bought it that it was from Canada, but it doesn't say Canada anywhere on it

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3205801

3206800

28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M (13-83+ELC)

1982

1000

3245101

3246100

28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M

Inscriptions - LEITZ LENS MADE IN CANADA ELMARIT 1:2.8/28
LEITZ ELMARIT 1:2.8/28 3XXXXXX

ELC = Ernst Leitz Canada

Edited July 9, 2022 by Erato

[Al Brown]

Funny how some people will endlessly argue whether German or Canadian Leitz lenses are superior while others will be making world class stories, reportages and gorgeous gallery worthy images with their M lenses while not giving a single **** about this brutally irrelevant information.

[lct]

39 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

I remember when I bought it that it was from Canada, but it doesn't say Canada anywhere on it

Never seen that so far but i may be wrong. You should see Canada engraved on the barrel of the lens like this if your 28/2.8 is a 11804:

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[a.noctilux]

LCT wrong Quote.

it must be quote from @rickKop

the engraving can tell indeed.

[adan]

lct beat me to it.

In those early-1980s lenses, the "CANADA" (or "GERMANY") engraving shifted around a lot - location, and black-on-black vs. white-on-black markings.

Leitz couldn't make up their minds.

My 21mm/2.8 is a 326xxxx, and has the tiny black-on-black CANADA engraving on the base ring, opposite the DoF scale. My 28 v.3 is earlier (303xxxx, "tiger-claw" focus tab), and the "Lens Made in Canada" is around the front element in white (with the serial number engraved on the side of the aperture ring).

[lct]

14 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

the engraving can tell indeed

It should at least . Sorry for the quote.

[rickKop]

Well wouldja look at that!  It's right there at the bottom.  Thanks guys. 

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[a.noctilux]

23 minutes ago, rickKop said:

Well wouldja look at that!  It's right there at the bottom.  Thanks guys. 

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Now you know 😉.

Upset ❔

[pippy]

7 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Funny how some people will endlessly argue whether German or Canadian Leitz lenses are superior while others will be making world class stories, reportages and gorgeous gallery worthy images with their M lenses while not giving a single **** about this brutally irrelevant information.

I couldn't possibly agree more. Thank you.

Philip.

Edited July 9, 2022 by pippy

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