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Colour rendering amongst M9, M10 and M10-P


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I had used a M9 for 3 years and a M10 for 1 year and recently switched to M10-P. The colour rendering of M10 was close to M9 in particular on skin tone. I expected the colour rendering of M10-P is identical to M10. However, its colour is slightly pinkish and a little bit flat after a few days trial. I don’t have the M10 now and can’t to make a one to one comparison. Does anyone owns both M10 and M10-P could make a comparison for me. Thanks.

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1 hour ago, pedaes said:

Same sensor and processor in both. You are either looking at different settings between cameras or something else changed in your workflow. Or the very remote possibility of a camera fault.

...well, there is significant difference between M10 and M10-P. Reason what I have not figured out as they should share same sensor.

Capture One doesn’t support M10-P and using M10 profile skews the colors and neutral DNG profiles are quite off too.

Only way to get proper colors with C1 (I haven’t used LR for years so I don’t know if Adobe has created M10-P profiles) is to create own generic profiles.

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34 minutes ago, oka said:

...well, there is significant difference between M10 and M10-P. Reason what I have not figured out as they should share same sensor.

Capture One doesn’t support M10-P and using M10 profile skews the colors and neutral DNG profiles are quite off too.

Only way to get proper colors with C1 (I haven’t used LR for years so I don’t know if Adobe has created M10-P profiles) is to create own generic profiles.

Regarding C1: That is completely true. Experienced the same behavior although I still believe it is the same sensor :/.

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3 minutes ago, BJohn said:

Regarding C1: That is completely true. Experienced the same behavior although I still believe it is the same sensor :/.

I do believe that M10-P/D has new revised sensor / electronics which effects DNG output for the reasons Leica won’t tell us publicly.

I did have sensor AND electronic problems on M10 and quite many has reported sensor problems but not so many on M10-P models (thought it might just be just a reason that M10 is sold much more)...

 

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With regard to Capture One this has been covered here quite extensively.  When I got my M10-P the rendering was terrible, as C1 uses generic ICC as it still does not recognise an M10-P.  Quite why this has not been fixed is anyone's guess.  All they need to do is recognise the M10-P in the EXIF data and apply the M10 profile, as they have the same sensor.

I solved my problem by buying LumaRiver and creating my own profile, and applying that automatically when the photos are imported into C1.  I think that XRite now also creates ICC profiles.

 

Edited by digger1914
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I also think there is some change with the sensor or software from M10 to M10-P which produces slight differences. But I just compared the Camera RAW profiles, and they are identical for the M10, M10P and M10D except for some minor things, copyright date and name of the camera. So switching one profile for the other should result in exactly the same result.

 

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I tried Capture One, hated it, and kicked it into the long grass. I tried Luminar. It used so much memory that I had the multicolour 'ball of death' so many times that it also got kicked into the long grass.

Lightroom CC is so slow and is so reliant on catalogues. Its price makes it ridiculous. It also shares the prize with Luminar for causing the 'ball of death' to appear.

The old proprietary Lightroom takes ages to load. I can go and make tea, brew it, and pour a cup before it is ready for use. At least it works ... eventually. As it came with my M240-P it is free.

I also tried Serif Affinity. After some help from their staff to sort out settings, I find it annoyingly necessary to switch modes at times, but it works. For under GBP 50 is this the best?

This whole area of RAW/DNG development needs a good software developer to reduce demands on RAM and provide a simple package that works. There is money in it for anyone bright enough to come up with a simple solution.

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7 hours ago, Peter Kilmister said:

I tried Capture One, hated it, and kicked it into the long grass. I tried Luminar. It used so much memory that I had the multicolour 'ball of death' so many times that it also got kicked into the long grass.

Lightroom CC is so slow and is so reliant on catalogues. Its price makes it ridiculous. It also shares the prize with Luminar for causing the 'ball of death' to appear.

...maybe time to upgrade the computer?

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6 hours ago, Infantasy said:

I use both C1 and DxO and same as yours appears different colour. Although a DxO already has M10-P profile, its rendering is still not the same as M10.

...thought it’s not only Leica problem.

Canon 5D4 had also “problems” with C1, with the latest processing versions render 5D4 files significantly different...

It’s a additional step, but I do think creating own generic profiles are nowadays mandatory if you want to be sure that look of the files stays relatively stable when you change the bodies.

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5 hours ago, oka said:

...maybe time to upgrade the computer?

If 8GB of RAM isn't enough to allow these programs to run without the "ball of death", then there is something inherently wrong with the way they are designed. 

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While Capture One Pro has a lot of good points, interpretation of Leica cameras and lenses is not one of them. Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom is really the only raw processor (both use ACR) that interprets Leica and 3rd party Leica profiles, and provides really good Leica lens corrections. This alone should be enough to quell the criticism of Adobe's subscription policy, bloat, etc. etc.

Certainly one can create one's own profile - provided the software being used accepts that. But having spent thousands upon thousands of dollars for the Leica experience, I kind of like the ability to see the image as Leica would interpret it...

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10 hours ago, Edax said:

The problem might not be the 8GB RAM, but your 1TB HDD. An SSD might perform much and much better...

I used to unscrew the back of MS laptops and fit more memory. I used to replace hard drives on MS laptops. In fact, having worked with computers since 1967, I am happy to fiddle about with the ones I know.

Nearly 3 years ago I bought an iMac as I need a big screen with great graphics. I love the simplicity but I have no idea with this beast as to where the memory is located and how to add more. I am sure there is loads on YouTube so give me a while and I can fix it.

One thing I do know is that SSDs have a habit of failing with no warning. Yes, they are very quick but when they die there is no recovery. Yes, I have backup on a daily basis to a Network Storage System, so maybe an SSD might be an option.

All the same, the programs are the cause of the problem. 

When I bought Leica products they came with Adobe proprietary licences. That has now changed. 2 month's trial is a poor replacement.

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12 hours ago, Peter Kilmister said:

I used to unscrew the back of MS laptops and fit more memory. I used to replace hard drives on MS laptops. In fact, having worked with computers since 1967, I am happy to fiddle about with the ones I know.

Nearly 3 years ago I bought an iMac as I need a big screen with great graphics. I love the simplicity but I have no idea with this beast as to where the memory is located and how to add more. I am sure there is loads on YouTube so give me a while and I can fix it.

One thing I do know is that SSDs have a habit of failing with no warning. Yes, they are very quick but when they die there is no recovery. Yes, I have backup on a daily basis to a Network Storage System, so maybe an SSD might be an option.

All the same, the programs are the cause of the problem. 

When I bought Leica products they came with Adobe proprietary licences. That has now changed. 2 month's trial is a poor replacement.

I have 16GB of memory in my iMac and that works a treat with Adobe products. In fact I've just ordered another 8GB stick to add in to speed it up more. Easy to fit additional memory and not bad price wise to buy. 

There are plenty of Lightroom tips to speed up LR, a quick Google will bring some of these up

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12 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Time for a new iMac 

...or put your system and everything other than your picture files on an external SSD drive. 500GB drive will probably be enough. Will speed up your Mac considerably, and enable you to run the excellent LR Classic! You will not see any difference in using your Mac, and a lot cheaper than a new one. FWIW.

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