Leica S + Hasselblad X1D

[setuporg]

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I've started with the X1D last year but was missing an OVF in MFT and so now got the S 007.  I can't be happier with the two.  This thread is for shared experiences, and I'm also starting one at hasselbladdigitalforum.com: http://www.hasselbladdigitalforum.com/index.php?topic=6494.0.

Some observations so far in random order:

-- after XCD 80mm all lenses seem OK and not heavy, both S and XCD:)

-- X1D is easier to grab but S is just fine.  Hold it like Medvedev!

-- @Vieri  is a great resource for both systems, with thorough reviews.  General lack of MFT reviews compared to FF

-- S lenses are faster and the system performs OK in low light, despite the mirror shake.  I stuck to 2.5 lenses so far.

-- AF is comparably slower than FF DSLRs but OK.  S AF is faster. 

-- S startup is much faster, battery life much longer.

-- Lenses span complementary ranges, I prefer some XCD and like some S ones.  Eg XCD 21mm is certainly the king of superwide while S 70mm beats XCD 65mm with 2.5 to 2.8 and speed as a walkaround one.  The S 35mm is nicely different from CD 30mm. 

-- It's easier to carry two X1D bodies, e.g. X1D and X1D II with mounted lenses fit in a large Billingham case.  The idea to own or carry 2 S bodies does not feel right.:)
 

Both systems produce the dreamy MFT look.  Life is good!

Edited September 25, 2019 by setuporg

[Milan_S]

For me the X1D works somehow better in low light with AF and AF is more precise. I never could focus the S 100mm f2 accurately and in strong back light the S always has difficulties locking focus in AF. 

The S lenses have a wonderful rendering the XCD are a bit slower but the whole package is somehow lighter. 

I do prefer the colour outcome of the X1D compared to the S007.

I carried two S bodies in Iceland but it's not an easy job (I lift weights)

Good luck with both! Please share some photos. 

 

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[setuporg]

One thing that is weird with the S is washout of highlights.  I have to manually correct to -1 if I shoot a white building that takes most of the frame.

[tom0511]

I also own (still?) both , and do like both. However I ask myself how much sense it makes to own both such systems and lenses. So when you go out, which camera do you choose for which application? Which one do you bring on travel?

At the moment I use the SL/S1r more often than either x1d and S.

[Jk1002]

I am curious if non landscape/non studio photographers are bothered by the bokeh effect cause by the X1d leaf shutter when you shoot into traffic lights and such.

I do believe they made some firmware changes to improve that but am not sure how effective that is.

 

Cheers

JK

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It wasn’t the leaf shutter. It was the aperture diaphram that was stopped down to be precise. Now you have an option to have it fully retracted when wide open giving a true round aperture with a small (HB say 1/10th stop) actual aperture difference.

In the real world it’s rarely an issue. Many many lenses over the years have had slightly hexagonal boheh. I still set mine for fully open though.

Gordon

[setuporg]

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Last weekend, I've done an extended field test of S007 vs X1DMkII.  Or rather, I used both.  The S has 35mm and 70mm, and the X1D got the 30mm and the 65mm.  I used both, hanging on my neck together, with all lens combinations.  For head to head comparison I used 70mm+65mm or 35mm+30mm, and for complementary shots used 70mm+30mm or 35mm+65mm.  I have tons of photos from Tahoe -- with bright sun reflections in the water, where we swam with kids on Friday, and snow that fell overnight and we played snowball fights on Sunday!  (Still swam after that as the water is warm.). It takes me forever to sort and properly compare some of these so eventually they might show up here...  So far some observations.

-- It's ridiculous how small the X1D feels after S.  The recipe to enjoy your gear as small and light is to get a bigger system.

-- The S is much faster.  Any shot that requires people is better done with the S70mm than XCD 65mm.  The main problem of X1D is constant AF hunting.  Even if you shoot at infinity it needs to make sure.  The S seems much more economical and trusts the next shot be where you left off.  Often AF doesn't engage and I wonder if it's OK.  It is.  Basically the 70mm+30mm was much better -- closeups of kids doing the treetop courses were timely, and broad landscapes shot with 30mm were not urgent to catch as they say there forever.

-- The OVF shows just how pitiful the EVFs are.  One feels consternation why Hasselblad couldn't make the world's best EVF in MkII.  Surely we deserve 5 megapixels or higher.  But even then it's futile.  The image is just not the same.  You miss reality all the time except when you come home and see it on the big screen.  

-- X1D can be held indefinitely and the S is just a bit awkward to hold, you need to support it from below and/or the lens.  It's imperative with the zoom.

-- The X1D goes through batteries like Taylor Swift through hits.  I use 6 just to be sure, 2-3 a day is easy.  The S lasts a day of my shooting on one battery (600-800 shoots).  I got the second and always charge it.  I generally shoot a lot and have 5-6 batteries for each of the M60/M246, M10, Q2 systems I use for full-frame.  The S can go far on 3-4 -- I always account for forgetting/not being able to charge on a trip.

-- The X1D files are gorgeous and are not worse than the Leica.  It remains to be seen if Leica has an advantage in IQ.

-- The S lenses are faster both in AF terms and optically.  The 70 is 2.5 vs 65's 2.8 and the 35 is 2.5, a whole stop faster than 30's 3.5.  It makes a difference.  I'm hesitant to get the S45mm as it's 2.8 and I'd rather keep everything fast, eyeing the S100/2.  The only slow lens in S I have is the zoom, which turns out OK overall for landscapes and daylight kids.  I don't want the S24/3.5 for that reason.

-- A cheap 16GB SD card yields as many S photos as a 3-5x more expensive 32GB card for X1D. 

-- Leica is just more reliable in the field.  X1D is great for landscape.  People are harder.  

-- Using both is actually a great option.  XCD 30mm is the fastest AF lens for X1D and serves well as the wide angle context for S70mm primary people focus.

Edited October 1, 2019 by setuporg

[Milan_S]

I can agree on most of the points about weight, batteries and evf/ovf. But I have some opposite conclusions regarding AF, for me nailing correct focus with people (i shoot people for a living) for me the X1D is much more precise in nailing focus because of the multiple focus points and the focus and recompose on the S often fails. The big focus points of the S also results in sometimes having the lashes in focus vs the eye. The S 100mm f2 is a very difficult lens too focus correctly...

[ZHNL]

43 minutes ago, Milan_S said:

I can agree on most of the points about weight, batteries and evf/ovf. But I have some opposite conclusions regarding AF, for me nailing correct focus with people (i shoot people for a living) for me the X1D is much more precise in nailing focus because of the multiple focus points and the focus and recompose on the S often fails. The big focus points of the S also results in sometimes having the lashes in focus vs the eye. The S 100mm f2 is a very difficult lens too focus correctly...

+1.

However, thanks for this detail reports. I can put down my lust for X1D 1 or 2. 

[setuporg]

7 hours ago, Milan_S said:

I can agree on most of the points about weight, batteries and evf/ovf. But I have some opposite conclusions regarding AF, for me nailing correct focus with people (i shoot people for a living) for me the X1D is much more precise in nailing focus because of the multiple focus points and the focus and recompose on the S often fails. The big focus points of the S also results in sometimes having the lashes in focus vs the eye. The S 100mm f2 is a very difficult lens too focus correctly...

Yes, I noticed I need better control of the AF.  Also not at all sure how to do it in video.  OTOH, kids generally come out OK on S vs X1D which just takes too long so the scene escapes.  I'd need a better AF mastery on S indeed to focus on faces more often...  Would a split screen help?

[ropo54]

On 10/1/2019 at 3:35 AM, setuporg said:

Last weekend, I've done an extended field test of S007 vs X1DMkII.  Or rather, I used both.  The S has 35mm and 70mm, and the X1D got the 30mm and the 65mm.  I used both, hanging on my neck together, with all lens combinations.  For head to head comparison I used 70mm+65mm or 35mm+30mm, and for complementary shots used 70mm+30mm or 35mm+65mm.  I have tons of photos from Tahoe -- with bright sun reflections in the water, where we swam with kids on Friday, and snow that fell overnight and we played snowball fights on Sunday!  (Still swam after that as the water is warm.). It takes me forever to sort and properly compare some of these so eventually they might show up here...  So far some observations.

-- It's ridiculous how small the X1D feels after S.  The recipe to enjoy your gear as small and light is to get a bigger system.

-- The S is much faster.  Any shot that requires people is better done with the S70mm than XCD 65mm.  The main problem of X1D is constant AF hunting.  Even if you shoot at infinity it needs to make sure.  The S seems much more economical and trusts the next shot be where you left off.  Often AF doesn't engage and I wonder if it's OK.  It is.  Basically the 70mm+30mm was much better -- closeups of kids doing the treetop courses were timely, and broad landscapes shot with 30mm were not urgent to catch as they say there forever.

-- The OVF shows just how pitiful the EVFs are.  One feels consternation why Hasselblad couldn't make the world's best EVF in MkII.  Surely we deserve 5 megapixels or higher.  But even then it's futile.  The image is just not the same.  You miss reality all the time except when you come home and see it on the big screen.  

-- X1D can be held indefinitely and the S is just a bit awkward to hold, you need to support it from below and/or the lens.  It's imperative with the zoom.

-- The X1D goes through batteries like Taylor Swift through hits.  I use 6 just to be sure, 2-3 a day is easy.  The S lasts a day of my shooting on one battery (600-800 shoots).  I got the second and always charge it.  I generally shoot a lot and have 5-6 batteries for each of the M60/M246, M10, Q2 systems I use for full-frame.  The S can go far on 3-4 -- I always account for forgetting/not being able to charge on a trip.

-- The X1D files are gorgeous and are not worse than the Leica.  It remains to be seen if Leica has an advantage in IQ.

-- The S lenses are faster both in AF terms and optically.  The 70 is 2.5 vs 65's 2.8 and the 35 is 2.5, a whole stop faster than 30's 3.5.  It makes a difference.  I'm hesitant to get the S45mm as it's 2.8 and I'd rather keep everything fast, eyeing the S100/2.  The only slow lens in S I have is the zoom, which turns out OK overall for landscapes and daylight kids.  I don't want the S24/3.5 for that reason.

-- A cheap 16GB SD card yields as many S photos as a 3-5x more expensive 32GB card for X1D. 

-- Leica is just more reliable in the field.  X1D is great for landscape.  People are harder.  

-- Using both is actually a great option.  XCD 30mm is the fastest AF lens for X1D and serves well as the wide angle context for S70mm primary people focus.

Are you comparative comments in this post, and your later post, about the X1D or X1D II?  I'm confused.

How quick is shooting with the X1D II (if you have tried it).  Your post immediately  above in the post #10 states: "OTOH, kids generally come out OK on S vs X1D which just takes too long so the scene escapes".  Is that a reference to the X1D II?

 Thanks, Rob

Edited October 2, 2019 by ropo54

[setuporg]

Rob -- it's X1D MkII.  I have both but took only the II with me that time.  It's certainly faster than the original but overall focus is slower than Leica so kids can move a lot by the time you shoot.  Leica S feels much more reliable in that regard.

Edited October 2, 2019 by setuporg

[Sarnian]

4 hours ago, setuporg said:

it's X1D MkII.  I have both...

Congrats on winning the lottery! X1D MkII + multiple lenses & 007 + multiple lenses. I'm in no way jealous... 🤑

[tom0511]

Some time ago I also compared those 2 systems and many conclusions were the same.

The x1d has a clear size advantage, the S is faster, more responsive, offers faster lenses and a more complete lens range, faster lenses, and I even go so far that the S lenses have a special rendering. What I find strange how (many) discussions in the internet see  the S system outdated. Eventhough the size factor of the x1d is appealing for sure.

 

[setuporg]

One more thing about the size and weight: your body certainly adapts to it.  And muscle memory is comparative.  After mounting the zoom and lugging it around, the camera felt top heavy and my neck and back ached as I carry a Billingham bag with a few other lenses.  However after a while I got used to it.  Now the 70 feels light.  After handling it for a while the S becomes fairly handy.  The primes are light — I’ve not tried the 24mm yet though which seems to weigh as much as the zoom!  I’d not carry several S lenses on a hike though.  Two max.  After this I could probably take all of the XCD lenses instead, along with two X1D bodies, or perhaps either of the whole bunch of Leica M or Fuji XF systems too instead of the S and two lenses.  The heavy lenses of full-frame systems feel normal.  The only heavy lens in FF is the 70-200/2.8 zoom, which feels like a lead pipe but every gram worth the tele.  The Noctilux feels light.  The Fuji XF 56mm feels infinitesimally light, and I vividly remember doubting its heft compared to other speck-light lenses.  I find it funny now how the M folks like Summicrons because they are lighter than Summiluxes.  Or debating how the 28mm Lux is smaller than the 24mm Lux, and certainly smaller than the unwieldy 21 Lux.  This is all relative...   The MF is inimitable and it’s hard to go back to the smaller systems...

[yudafu2]

I am curious to hear what you guys think of the XCD lenses vs the S lenses?  I find it difficult to trust the XCD lenses, since they are manufactured by a factory that is not that well known. The S lenses are simply the best I have ever used, and I have used many. 

[setuporg]

The XCD lenses are some of the most magnificent and magical ever.  The 21mm makes the S24mm feel like unnecessary.  The XCD 80mm/f1.9 is pure magic and complements the S100mm/f2.0 very nicely for a kind of redundant portrait toolkit.  I’m rapidly catching up on the S lineup and I’d say XCD holds its own.  They are a bit slower aperture-wise but are a fantastic kit.

[yudafu2]

6 minutes ago, setuporg said:

The XCD lenses are some of the most magnificent and magical ever.  The 21mm makes the S24mm feel like unnecessary.  The XCD 80mm/f1.9 is pure magic and complements the S100mm/f2.0 very nicely for a kind of redundant portrait toolkit.  I’m rapidly catching up on the S lineup and I’d say XCD holds its own.  They are a bit slower aperture-wise but are a fantastic kit.

Wow. This is unexpected. How about the 30, 45, and the 90? I have never used the S24, but I have 35, 45, 70, 120, and the 180. I think apart from the 70, all the other four have the best rendering of any lenses that I have used. I also have the Fuji GF 23, 45, and 110. They are also extremely sharp, but their rendering is not as nice as the S lenses. I am quite surprised that you believe the XCD lenses are as good as the S.  I have seen some raw files from X1D and played with them, but they do not seem to have the same bite as the S images. Do you have a different experience? 

 

[setuporg]

Some folks say the XCD 45 is less superb than 30 or 90 but I find them all quite excellent.  The 30 is terrific and my most common walkaround.  
 

I’ve been shooting with the X1D for more than a year and coming into S, the current feeling is that something special is lost that X1D does.  Perhaps it’s habit, but the colors from the X1D are perfect OOC.  I’ll be studying the photos more.  I love the S100mm for its speed.  Also S70mm is excellent I’d not rate it any less than the others I got, 35 and 100 and 30-90... that zoom is great for my use.

Edited October 4, 2019 by setuporg

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[yudafu2]

11 hours ago, setuporg said:

Some folks say the XCD 45 is less superb than 30 or 90 but I find them all quite excellent.  The 30 is terrific and my most common walkaround.  
 

I’ve been shooting with the X1D for more than a year and coming into S, the current feeling is that something special is lost that X1D does.  Perhaps it’s habit, but the colors from the X1D are perfect OOC.  I’ll be studying the photos more.  I love the S100mm for its speed.  Also S70mm is excellent I’d not rate it any less than the others I got, 35 and 100 and 30-90... that zoom is great for my use.

Very interesting. I do see the color from the X1D being quite pleasing. The GFX, on the other hand, has very strong tendency toward magenta and often quite artificial.  Some of my friends did not like the color from the S007, but so far I have had no problem with it. Its color is still much nicer looking than the Fuji --- Maybe that is a function of the Fuji lenses vs the S lenses. When I use the 75 Summilux on the Fuji, the color is not as artificial. 

For me, image quality wise, the S is the golden standard. Since not many people have both systems, your observation here really piqued my interests in the X1D.