Help Identifying Black Standard w/ Weird Elements and Lens

[Hello]

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I recently picked up this Black Standard with an 11 o'clock post Elmar. It seems to be cobbled together but maybe you guys can enlighten me on what exactly it is.

Here's some things I noticed:

The black speed mound seems to be a later addition and it is oddly aligned as the shutter speed dash-mark is not intersecting the hot flash. Also, there are bits replaced like black screws etc. The chrome elements seem to be a bit too shiny and aren't Nickel plated which is what I imagned they would've been. Am I wrong thinking this?

The lens is also odd as it is smaller than the mount plate on the camera. It has "0" marks on it which match the lens mount plate. Could this be a converted lens to be used on later models? It is rangefinder coupled.

The penciled lettering on the inside is also interesting.

Overall just a weird little version.

Thanks very much.

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Edited September 25, 2019 by Hello

[jerzy]

Indeed, it looks like some parts have been replaced. Camera is from 1934, produced as Standard. First chromed cameras were from 1932/33, chrome plating was more shiny than on later cameras. But I do not think that it was black/chrome when produced, rather then it was black/nickel with chromed parts replaced later, possibly not with Leitz.

Resons: Lens flange on camera is nickeled, similarly threaded part under the release

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Speed dial is from III, models II and below did not have "20-1", just "20".
Dates penciled on light shields are repair/revisions I believe, very probably thir party, Leitz did not mark the dates and not in this place.
Interesting is viewer mount - camera was eqippped with a mask for 90 or 135 mm lens, note the 2 holes

Cover under the speed dial is not screwed on propely, you may try to screw it on (clockwise) to match the marks

As for the lens - I believe it is older than the camera, in 1934 all Elmars produced were 7 oclock and were fully nickeled or chromed. Here we have a mixture of nickeled and chromed parts as a result if repair, again most probably not Leitz. I believe that the lens is pre 1931, at this time  interchangeable Elmars were 11 oclock, without infinity lock, like this one. 11 oclock without lock has a flange of 45mm compared to 47mm on 11 oclock with lock and 7 oclock. Similarly, flange on the camera is 47mm in diameter. Lens has 0 on DOF scale, means is standartized.  A bit unusual is 0 stamped on the lens flange , Leitz was stamping focal lens grop under the focus tab, "0" means focal length of 50,5mm. But, assuming this is really focal length group this could be an indication that the lens originates from IA and was converted to interchangeable in 1930, early 1931
 

Edited September 25, 2019 by jerzy

[Hello]

3 hours ago, jerzy said:

Indeed, it looks like some parts have been replaced. Camera is from 1934, produced as Standard. First chromed cameras were from 1932/33, chrome plating was more shiny than on later cameras. But I do not think that it was black/chrome when produced, rather then it was black/nickel with chromed parts replaced later, possibly not with Leitz.

Resons: Lens flange on camera is nickeled, similarly threaded part under the release

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Speed dial is from III, models II and below did not have "20-1", just "20".
Dates penciled on light shields are repair/revisions I believe, very probably thir party, Leitz did not mark the dates and not in this place.
Interesting is viewer mount - camera was eqippped with a mask for 90 or 135 mm lens, note the 2 holes

Cover under the speed dial is not screwed on propely, you may try to screw it on (clockwise) to match the marks

As for the lens - I believe it is older than the camera, in 1934 all Elmars produced were 7 oclock and were fully nickeled or chromed. Here we have a mixture of nickeled and chromed parts as a result if repair, again most probably not Leitz. I believe that the lens is pre 1931, at this time  interchangeable Elmars were 11 oclock, without infinity lock, like this one. 11 oclock without lock has a flange of 45mm compared to 47mm on 11 oclock with lock and 7 oclock. Similarly, flange on the camera is 47mm in diameter. Lens has 0 on DOF scale, means is standartized.  A bit unusual is 0 stamped on the lens flange , Leitz was stamping focal lens grop under the focus tab, "0" means focal length of 50,5mm. But, assuming this is really focal length group this could be an indication that the lens originates from IA and was converted to interchangeable in 1930, early 1931
 

Thanks so much Jerzy. I suspected as much on your info but wanted to make sure. The nickel element on the shutter release was something I did not notice, so, great eye there. The lens is actually quite a good little renderer so bonus there. 

[willeica]

Thanks Jerzy. I have been traveling today and have only just got a chance to look at this. I agree with all of your points. On the black with chrome, I believe that this did not arrive until 1936, or 1935 at the very earliest. So, therefore, I agree with the theory about replacement parts. If the owner checks with the Leica Archives, they should be able to confirm whether the camera was returned to Wetzlar for an ‘upgrade’.

William

[tranquilo67]

Hi,

Of course, I fully agree with Jerzy in all his conclusions.

Here you have my Standard from the same year for reference, as far as I know, unmodified. All in black and nickel, mark for speeds in the inner side, the finder has no tab at the front and  even the shutter button has a different shape.

Hope it will help.

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