Marac Posted September 17, 2019 Share #21 Posted September 17, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I had the SL with 24-90 and 50 lux, wonderful. heavy, but wonderful. I now have the CL with a rack of lenses, wonderful, light, & wonderful. SL2? no thank you but I'm sure it will be wonderful, heavy, but wonderful. Aren't options wonderful? 2 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 17, 2019 Posted September 17, 2019 Hi Marac, Take a look here Switching from CL to SL2, anyone?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #22 Posted September 17, 2019 A very nice technical article, proving that higher MP count is actually better to deal with diffraction. https://jonrista.com/2013/03/24/the-diffraction-myth/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #23 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Marac said: I had the SL with 24-90 and 50 lux, wonderful. heavy, but wonderful. I now have the CL with a rack of lenses, wonderful, light, & wonderful. SL2? no thank you but I'm sure it will be wonderful, heavy, but wonderful. Aren't options wonderful? Of course, I will never pair the SL2 with humongous Vario-SL 16-35 ; 24-90 ; 90-280 or Summilux-SL 50 Not even with huge Lumix S lenses or Sigma Art lenses. Only with APO-Summicron-SL ; M ; R lenses or Sigma Contemporary ones. Edited September 17, 2019 by nicci78 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2019 Share #24 Posted September 17, 2019 A nice article. However, it does not really correlate lens diffraction and sensor diffraction into a result throughout the optical system > I think we can agree that the story is far more complicated than a single number. I don't buy his bird feather argument, though. You only have to look at one of Doug Herr's photographs - taken with a 10 MP DMR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #25 Posted September 17, 2019 What Douglas Herr is saying about DMR 10MP https://www.overgaard.dk/Leica-Camera-Typ-601-The-Birdman-of-Sacramento-Douglas-Herr-takes-on-the-Leica-SL-Review-Sony-A7II-with-Wildlife-Tele-Lenses.html Quote My previous camera was the Leica R8 with the Digital-Module-R (DMR), which was first available in 2005. It served me well but it had put on a lot of weight (that’s my story and I’m sticking to it). The batteries had been unavailable for quite some time and I had nightmares about dropping one off a cliff or in a lake, the 10MP sensor’s linear resolution was beginning to limit the market ability of my photos to clients who expect more, and only my Leica lenses were fully usable on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2019 Share #26 Posted September 17, 2019 Doesn't diminish the images, though. Note that he mentions marketing, not quality. I must give my DMR an outing one of these days. Remember, it is 2004 technology - and it can still hold its own - at ISO 200, that is 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #27 Posted September 17, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) Weight differences when using M lenses are : CL + thumb rest + handgrip vs SL = +345g M10 + Visoflex + handgrip vs SL = +157g It is quite hard to use heavier than 500g lenses with CL and M10. But it is not a problem at all with SL. Summilux-TL 35 or APO-Vario-Elmar-TL 55-135 are the heaviest lenses, I am willing to use with CL with handgrip & thumb rest APO-Summicron-SL lenses at 700-740g are already a weight challenge for tiny CL. Using them with SL, seems more reasonable. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #28 Posted September 17, 2019 I don't have a problem with CL + Apo-Summicron-SL 90, and I don't use a grip or thumb rest. These are just personal matters, not statements of absolute fact. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #29 Posted September 17, 2019 yes of course, I speak for myself. That's what I wrote. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2019 Share #30 Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, nicci78 said: Weight differences when using M lenses are : CL + thumb rest + handgrip vs SL = +345g M10 + Visoflex + handgrip vs SL = +157g It is quite hard to use heavier than 500g lenses with CL and M10. But it is not a problem at all with SL. Summilux-TL 35 or APO-Vario-Elmar-TL 55-135 are the heaviest lenses, I am willing to use with CL with handgrip & thumb rest APO-Summicron-SL lenses at 700-740g are already a weight challenge for tiny CL. Using them with SL, seems more reasonable. Indeed personal preferences. I am happy to use the 105-280 R - 1700 gram- on the CL but I have been using heavy rigs since 1988. It is all about finding the balance. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #31 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Talking about balance. Between lens + hood against CL + thumb rest + hand grip : Most current M lenses + M-Adapter-L are under 97% ratio. Except 2/75 (100%) ; 1,4/28 (102%) ; 3,4/135 (104%) ; 2/90 (114%) ; 1,4/24 (114%) ; 1,4/21 (129%) ; 0,95/50 (153%); 1,25/75 (224%) All TL lenses are from 16-109% APO-Summicron-SL lenses are around 150% of body mass Other larger SL lenses are ranging from 200-350% Between lens + hood against SL : Almost all M lenses + M-Adapter-L are under 78%. Except both Noctilux-M : 50mm at 91% and 75mm at 133% All TL lenses are from 9-65% APO-Summicron-SL lenses are around 90% of body mass Other larger SL lenses are ranging from 120-200% ratio Between lens + hood against M10 + Visoflex + hand grip : Almost all M lenses are under 77%. Except both Noctilux-M : 50mm at 92% and 75mm at 139% So what lens/body ratio fits you ? Edited September 17, 2019 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #32 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) TL/DR The ones that I find comfortable in my hand. Edited September 17, 2019 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2019 Share #33 Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, nicci78 said: Talking about balance. Between lens + hood against CL + thumb rest + hand grip : Most current M lenses + M-Adapter-L are under 97% ratio. Except 2/75 (100%) ; 1,4/28 (102%) ; 3,4/135 (104%) ; 2/90 (114%) ; 1,4/24 (114%) ; 1,4/21 (129%) ; 0,95/50 (153%); 1,25/75 (224%) All TL lenses are from 16-109% APO-Summicron-SL lenses are around 150% of body mass Other larger SL lenses are ranging from 200-350% Between lens + hood against SL : Almost all M lenses + M-Adapter-L are under 78%. Except both Noctilux-M : 50mm at 91% and 75mm at 133% All TL lenses are from 9-65% APO-Summicron-SL lenses are around 90% of body mass Other larger SL lenses are ranging from 120-200% ratio Between lens + hood against M10 + Visoflex + hand grip : Almost all M lenses are under 77%. Except both Noctilux-M : 50mm at 92% and 75mm at 139% So what lens/body ratio fits you ? Good information. Most of these considerations assume that one uses the camera for the main grip. However if one gets into the habit of stabilizing the combo by the lens and - this is important for non-AF lenses- the focus ring is in the right place, as is the case with Leica R lenses, the body weight and size gets fairly irrelevant. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #34 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Yes you’re right. It is some kind of worst case scenario with the best grip possible with the right hand. My theory is that we should be possible to handle the camera with the right hand at any given time. Of course switching from left hand to right hand is better. But you cannot take any photo with the left hand alone. And handling the camera with both hand at all time is always possible. For very very heavy lenses, monopod or tripod are more suitable. Edited September 17, 2019 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2019 Share #35 Posted September 17, 2019 Well, that doesn't help for wildlife photography The left hand holds the weight, in the case of the Vario-Elmar there is a nice tripod ring for support on the palm of the hand, the right hand stabilizes and aims the camera.Elbows in, proper breathing technique, and it is surprising how well it works. Tripod = obvious, but often too static and unwieldy, monopod is suitable for Video, but only of limited use for stills, best is a beanbag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #36 Posted September 17, 2019 I'm beginning to realise why some people feel balance in a different way to me. My left hand is always under the lens - or rather under the centre of gravity of lens+camera, not just as a support but to turn a manual focus ring or zoom ring. From habit, my hand now goes there with AF primes. I can well understand that if you are use to holding the whole lot by the camera body, it doesn't take a very big lens to make it feel unbalanced. 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 17, 2019 Share #37 Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) Actually I normally use camera with two hands. Support with left hand and right are used only for shooting. But with a fast growing baby, my left hand cannot be used for support. It’s crazy how you need a free hand, for carrying stuff, playing with toys, as a safety net for the kid, etc... At the beginning I was using the CL without thumb rest nor hand grip. But now I used them because I had to use the camera single handed. So start the unbalanced issue with summilux-TL 35 and APO-Vario-Elmar-TL 55-135 That’s why I will try the heavy route with future SL2. Weight is not really an issue. But unbalanced is. Edited September 17, 2019 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 17, 2019 Share #38 Posted September 17, 2019 Be careful not to induce RSI in your right wrist. Seriously. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 18, 2019 Share #39 Posted September 18, 2019 Yes, I’ll be careful. Actually I put the camera back into my bag as soon as possible. Only get it out when needed. Q2 and CL are stored in an always ready state : hood on, no cap and A&A silk cord strap wrapped around. Therefore I can switch quickly between them. The handgrip mounted on each one, help me to grab them out of the bag quickly and safely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
justbananas Posted September 19, 2019 Share #40 Posted September 19, 2019 I can say this, if I wanted a studio camera with a better workflow.... the SL2 would be on my list to check out... as long as I could tether it anyway. I've been doing a small amount of studio work with my CL, and the pictures are fine, the handling is.. well it's actually TOO small.. there is something to be said for the grip of the bigger body once you start attaching stuff to the camera.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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