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"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

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22 minutes ago, Distagon said:

Have you used the SL to the point of close familiarity, or just had a quick look?

Once one is used to the way one’s customised the four buttons, it is pretty intuitive.

He is alluding to the SL2 set up... not the SL.

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vor 59 Minuten schrieb Distagon:

Have you used the SL to the point of close familiarity, or just had a quick look?

Once one is used to the way one’s customised the four buttons, it is pretty intuitive.

Yes, what Don said. The pictures leaked to Nokishita likely don’t show the final product. There will be wheels, buttons, etc. to allow for fluid operations, I trust. What intrigues me is IBIS in a slimmer body than their “partner’s”, Panasonic. 

Edited by Chaemono

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2 hours ago, Radek said:

I know that this is about SL2... but many compares to S1R. For me I will be disappointed a little if SL2 will be only rebranded S1R. Key point of my post is about sigma fp. Every body compares SL and s1. But if we need small body, sigma is a solution.... fp + 45 mm f2.8 is a perfect travel/walk around combo.... 

The Sigma fp is the real innovative camera here, not the S1/S1R, nor the SL2, which are simple upgrades incorporating current technology and improving it a bit. The Sigma is approaching what has been demanded by others on this forum: a modular camera. A minimalist core body & sensor, and then add to it the bits you want. It also has the much lauded BSI sensor, external power supply, USB-C connector, external SDD storage etc. It 'only' has electronic image stabilisation but as computing power increases, this may be the way to go. Complex electromechanical IS may eventually seem as dated as the SLR flappy mirror thing. The Sigma's already dumped the electromechanical shutter. 

Of course it's got deficiencies - most obviously no EVF or add-on EVF - but you can't deny that the Sigma fp is a novel concept that wouldn't have surprised us if launched by Leica as their next step after the SL to bridge the still-video divide. In comparison the SL2 could be seen as a me-too S1/S1R. As others have commented, Leica has something unique with the M and Q (and TL2). The SL was also different from most competition when introduced (and took everyone by surprise - untrailed, unleaked, it came out of the blue). The SL2 may be interesting and competitive, but nothing about it looks innovative (so far - a necessary caveat to avoid having to eat my hat).

 

Edited by LocalHero1953

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29 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Yes, what Don said. The pictures leaked to Nokishita likely don’t show the final product. There will be wheels, buttons, etc. to allow for fluid operations, I trust. What intrigues me is IBIS in a slimmer body than their “partner’s”, Panasonic. 

...... errr .... if this was a prototype from the distant past then would have seen it before.

As others have said, most of the Nokishita releases turn out to be genuine. If it's a photoshopped piece of mischief, then why leave it till now ? If the announcement date is soonish then this is about the time that the final promo images will be circulated and lodged on inactive web pages ready to go live. That's where these sort of images slip out. There is nothing to suggest the IMAGES are not genuine ...... but plenty to doubt about the rest of the 'word of mouth' information that is circulating. 

Edited by thighslapper

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3 hours ago, nicci78 said:

You know two images on a web sites can be deceiving. 

But holding the two cameras next to each other is a different story. 

The S1R makes the SL feels like a small camera. 

But add the 24-90 and the SL become unbearable 

Of course, by himself the S1R is too heavy. 

The S1R doesn't feel much bigger than the SL to me. It is but the better grip makes it feel much better in the hand than the SL. A well balanced camera and lens often fell less heavy than they are. I did 40km walking around Paris over three days recently with the S1R and had no issues What I did appreciate was the incredible IBIS. .And despite the hundreds of buttons it's very well laid out, partly because there's room to do so. It's nowhere near as good as the SL mk1 for layout and usability, but not much is.

Gordon

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6 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Indeed. Only fools buy into a system on the basis of the body.  I'm already convinced I need some L-glass, but I've yet to be convinced I need an SL2. Perhaps foreshadowing my lemming status, I did state a few pages back in this or the other thread, that I look forward to Jono convincing me as to why I do need to have an SL2 over a S1R.  He's a clever one, that Jono, but this is shaping up to be a bit of a challenge.

I may be a fool, but the last time I checked Lumix bodies use thick cover glass for their sensors. That fact alone is a non-starter for me and M users. 

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1 minute ago, Mr.Q said:

I may be a fool, but the last time I checked Lumix bodies use thick cover glass for their sensors. That fact alone is a non-starter for me and M users. 

No... not a fool, but many of us are happily using the M glass on the S1/R. I have only the 50 0.95 though... shooting mostly SL glass.

With that said, if you're buying the body PRIMARILY to use M glass... the SL or SL2 are likely better options.

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8 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

No... not a fool, but many of us are happily using the M glass on the S1/R. I have only the 50 0.95 though... shooting mostly SL glass.

With that said, if you're buying the body PRIMARILY to use M glass... the SL or SL2 are likely better options.

I use the 24-90 sparingly for zoom needs, but most times M and R lenses are adapted.

The SL is still the best camera for a Leica ecosystem as promised by Leica at introduction. That was, and still remains, the selling point for a lot us.

Even the Nikon Z7 performs better (and balances better) with M lenses than the Lumix bodies. 

Edited by Mr.Q
typo

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So yeah, let's not get it twisted. The S1/R may currently be the best body for a dozen or so L-mount lenses, but for LEICA lenses in general the SL is the better choice.

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14 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

So yeah, let's not get it twisted. The S1/R may currently be the best body for a dozen or so L-mount lenses, but for LEICA lenses in general the SL is the better choice.

The S1/R are the best bodies for the SL glass. 

The best body for M glass performance on  an L mount body is the SL and soon to come SL2.

The M glass performs BEST on an M body. 

The SL glass is better than the M glass and has AF. Yes... it’s much bigger, bulkier... but it’s true.

I don’t think the target audience for either the SL2 or S1/R are the M and R users. 

No one is getting twisted... 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

The SL glass is better than the M glass and has AF. Yes... it’s much bigger, bulkier... but it’s true.

 

"Better" is a relative term.
Technically better? yes.
Rendering wise? subjective.
Size/weight/haptics? no.
Adaptability? no.
Durability to last decades? no.
As an investment? hell no.
 

21 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

The S1/R are the best bodies for the SL glass. 

The best body for M glass performance on  an L mount body is the SL and soon to come SL2.

The M glass performs BEST on an M body. 

The SL glass is better than the M glass and has AF. Yes... it’s much bigger, bulkier... but it’s true.

I don’t think the target audience for either the SL2 or S1/R are the M and R users. 

No one is getting twisted... 

 

 

 


I wouldn't say that with much certainty. I know A LOT of folks that ONLY use M and R lenses with the SL.

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6 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:
 

"Better" is a relative term.
Technically better? yes.
Rendering wise? subjective.
Size/weight/haptics? no.
Adaptability? no.
Durability to last decades? no.
As an investment? hell no.
 


I wouldn't say that with much certainty. I know A LOT of folks that ONLY use M and R lenses with the SL.

Let’s just agree to disagree...

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5 hours ago, MarkinVan said:

Has Leica News & Rumor been wrong before?

Yes, more than once, including release date of SL2 (first predicted last year, before release of Lumix S, then again this June).  Most notable recent error was confident prediction (twice) last May for June, 2018 release of Leica C-M.  But Peter had an excellent track record from the M9 until these missteps.  He even collaborated with Leica on the Leica Q release.

Jeff

 

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vor 6 Stunden schrieb thighslapper:

 ...... but plenty to doubt about the rest of the 'word of mouth' information that is circulating. 

They engage the rumor sites and they engage in social media. 

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15 hours ago, anickpick said:

Most will change their mind, once they have read Jono‘s review.

 

Oh no I just got jonoed again ! Just read its review about Lumix S1 with Leica lenses. 

Then I just have to buy it. It’s so cheap in Leica world. 😉

of course I am just kidding. I will never buy a Panasonic again. 

Jono Slack is a very efficient influencer. However I still trust his point of view. It seems more genuine than other bloggers. They tend to be too enthusiastic. Just want to get a small commission on your next big purchase. 

Hopefully we will read his full report about SL2 soon. 

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"I'll never buy Brand X again" Don't people look at the products on offer? Or does the brain switch off at reading the label?

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I also look forward to Jono's SL2 review. I've found his past reviews to be very balanced and informative. 

That said no single reviewer or group of reviewers for that matter that is going to fundamentally change the nature of an announcement. The SL2 will be what the SL2 will be.

If one takes the totality of the feedback in this thread a few common themes emerge: 

- Most appear to favor the inclusions of IBIS and to some it's a "must have".

- Most appear to favor a camera that is lighter but preferably no heavier than the current model

- There is a also significant group that says that S1R ergonomics are good enough to make a heavier camera totally viable ( this is totally credible since folks have already voted with their pocketbook) That said, reading between the lines I don't believe that this same group is saying they are actually hope that the SL2 comes in at over 1 kg.

- There appears to be almost universal agreement that the original SL was a groundbreaking camera with a superior user interface, EVF and that it has stood the test of time. 

- A significant percentage (myself included) would miss the current user programmable 4 button setup. 

Beyond the specific features and cameras specs on which no group of users is ever going to agree on, there seems to be a general consensus that for SL2 to succeed in the market it will have to have more than just an increase in MP and simpler Leica user interface. Particularly considering its premium positioning / price point, there will have to be some added differentiation that will make it unique in its own right in what is an increasingly crowded and competitive market. 

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