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"Vader" Certainly Isn't Any Prettier

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12 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Q2 do not have IBIS. Q and Q2 have OIS : optical image stabilisation, small lens element moving to correct any movement.

There are only 2 SL lenses with OIS : Vario-Elmarit-SL 24-90 ASPH. and APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 90-280 

IBIS means in body image stabilisation : sensor moved by strong magnets to correct any movement.

Good point of clarification. I've also been guilty of using the terminology interchangeably when clearly in camera versus in lens are two very different propositions.

I guess what many of us were hoping for is to have both IBIS in SL2 as well as OIS when using say 24-90 or 90-280. The additive benefit of having both is significant particularly at longer focal lengths. 

Implementing OIS is easier particularly in a camera like Q2 with single lens/body combo. Implementing IBIS in SL2 while keeping size weight down is a far greater challenge particularly if Leica is relying on Pana technology which is almost certainly the case.

The fact that achieving the combination or IBIS with weight savings is difficult is a statement of fact, but if one is going to sell same general product at a premium then there clearly needs to be something unique and special on offer and that implies achieving some breakthrough that others have failed to make. SL 1 did this with the EVF, form factor and user interface. 

Now SL2 must do something for an encore. In today unforgiving competitive world resting on ones laurels doesn't translate into long term success.

To be clear I'm not "yet" saying that Leica is falling into this trap...after all everything up until now is speculation based on a leak of some photos and specs. Hopefully there is more to it than has been speculated so far i.e. some positive surprises that taken as a whole provide some substance to the SL2 release.

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Seeing how Q2 sensor performed poorer than S1R version. According to DXOmark.

 Means that heat management is the key. Q2 being a small overheating body.  

Edited by nicci78

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There is another possibility. In latest interviews Panasonic stated that they will launch smaller bodies. 

SL2 may be late for waiting the second gen slimmer IBIS unit ? 

Edited by nicci78

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IBIS aside, the move from four programmable buttons to three named ones is still equally disconcerting, namely because it's obviously based on the M10 / CL / Q2 control scheme, and we all know that two of those buttons ('Menu' and 'Play') cannot be configured for a long press function, only the last button 'Fn' can, meaning a lot of the customization from the original SL is sacrificed for a 'cleaner look and consistent design language'.

It works better on the M10 because there are way less electronic features compared to SL, which is more likely to be used for professional applications. For example, a single press of the current bottom right button lets you instantly cycle between Live View Capture Assistants, a godsend feature that is absent from M10 / CL / Q2 (there is no dedicated button to cycle through 'grid', 'clipping', 'histogram', and 'horizon level' like the SL, and it also can't be set to the Favorites menu or any of the Fn buttons).  

Edited by prismstorm

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Ergonomics is usually very well handled by Leica, so I'm sure we'll all get used to the new button layout. Overall the SL2 does not win the beauty contest, but neither does the SL. But in handling, the SL by far exceeds any other current mirrorless camera, and by the looks of it, the same will be true for SL2 (if it's still aluminium and not the CL-faux-leather).

Doesn't look like a tilted screen: bummer. I love the one on the Fuji's/Panasonics. And while difficult to see, the 24-90 would still stick out, not flush with the bottom of the camera. Anyone who ever tried to put it on a gimbal or panorama-head probably understands what I mean. 

But most important for me would be the internals. 47MP ok of course, IBIS and LENR on/off would be show-stoppers for me. Competition is getting tougher every day...
 

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23 hours ago, BlackBarn said:

Disregarding the mentioned 47mpx  and the other enhanced functional bits as I can’t see why I would need them.

From a design perspective - appreciating that the new look as shown will have its appeal to many - I just picked up my ‘Old’ SL, gave it a little clean and thought wow, you are something really quite special.

 

It does make me wonder whether I shouldn’t be getting a new SL while I still can, at the reduced price.

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19 hours ago, nicci78 said:

Same horseshoe around the lens mount.

I see the horseshoe as a shout-out to the original Leicaflex SL.

If Leica and Panasonic shared camera design, perhaps it was Leica who pushed for this design element.

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14 hours ago, Chaemono said:

There is no way I'm getting this. I'm left-handed and use my left eye. I'll be poking myself in the right eye whenever I try to use the joystick. 😂 

Perhaps you could operate they joystick with your pupil? 😉

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1 hour ago, nicci78 said:

Seeing how Q2 sensor performed poorer than S1R version. According to DXOmark.

 Means that heat management is the key. Q2 being a small overheating body.  

DXOmark won't tell you much about sensor performance as such - only about camera output. As the Q by its design of integration of lens and sensor by necessity outputs a manipulated DNG file, more so than the average camera  (not just the distortion sidecar file), it is next to impossible to draw conclusions from the DXO methodology. Agree about the heat management issue.

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5 hours ago, Chaemono said:

No, it can’t. Look where it’s placed. 

this Japanese post sums it up quite well..

横位置も縦位置も左手はレンズをホールドしているので、
操作ボタンを左は疑問なのですが。
左手でレンズをホールドするでしょう?

>>>Since the left hand holds the lens in both the horizontal and vertical positions,
I have a question on the left of the operation button.
You will hold the lens with your left hand?

 

 

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15 hours ago, Chaemono said:

There is no way I'm getting this. I'm left-handed and use my left eye. I'll be poking myself in the right eye whenever I try to use the joystick. 😂 

I am a left-eyed shooter and have no problems at all using the joystick on the SL. There is plenty of room between your face and the joystick for a thumb. 

Wilson

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vor 43 Minuten schrieb frame-it:

this Japanese post sums it up quite well..

横位置も縦位置も左手はレンズをホールドしているので、
操作ボタンを左は疑問なのですが。
左手でレンズをホールドするでしょう?

>>>Since the left hand holds the lens in both the horizontal and vertical positions,
I have a question on the left of the operation button.
You will hold the lens with your left hand?

 

 

wlaidlaw put it well. There was some provocation and irony in my statement. 

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6 minutes ago, 99p said:

Is it too early to start speculating about the SL3? 🤔

maybe wait till it reaches page 20 ?

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36 minutes ago, 99p said:

Is it too early to start speculating about the SL3? 🤔

Its my hope that we will see S3 before SL3... 😲

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2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

There is another possibility. In latest interviews Panasonic stated that they will launch smaller bodies. 

SL2 may be late for waiting the second gen slimmer IBIS unit ? 

I do love the way you work all the "angles".

I doubt Panasonic would allow Leica to steal all the thunder with a Pana slimmer IBIS unit shortly after they introduce a behemoth like the S1R. That said nothing would please me more than if this hypothetical scenario were correct.

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vor 15 Minuten schrieb NicholasT:

I do love the way you work all the "angles".

I doubt Panasonic would allow Leica to steal all the thunder with a Pana slimmer IBIS unit shortly after they introduce a behemoth like the S1R. That said nothing would please me more than if this hypothetical scenario were correct.

From another angle, maybe Leica will use Sony IBIS instead of Panasonic’s, just like with the 36 MPx Sony sensor in the SL2 instead of the 47 MPx Towerjazz one. 😂

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb Chaemono:

just like with the 36 MPx Sony sensor in the SL2 instead of the 47 MPx Towerjazz one.

Dream on.

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31 minutes ago, NicholasT said:

I do love the way you work all the "angles".

I doubt Panasonic would allow Leica to steal all the thunder with a Pana slimmer IBIS unit shortly after they introduce a behemoth like the S1R. That said nothing would please me more than if this hypothetical scenario were correct.

Why not ? Didn’t Panasonic let Leica used its best tech to build the Q and the SL ? Two full frame cameras, more than three years before Lumix S1 and S1R seen the light of day. 

Panasonic just choose to go big with S1R. I am sure that they can do very small. Just look at tiny GM1

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Unless Sony has dramatically improved upon their IBIS in their latest A7r iteration, using their stabilization in place of Panasonic's would be an egregious error ... meaning, Sony's IBIS isn't very effective, despite their claims.

BTW, the Panasonic GM1 has OIS, not IBIS ... big difference.

Edited by ron777

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