pebetz Posted August 1, 2007 Share #1 Posted August 1, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi After my post in this forum some time ago I've been getting some questions about R lenses and the Digilux 3. Most of the questions have been about focusing. And I've had a lot questions of my own, mostly from reading technical articles on lens speed and depth of field in LFI and other magazines. Added to this, I've had a bunch of practical issues raising questions when actually trying to take some pictures with the Digilux 3 and R lenses. I will here try to give my conclusions and some of the answers I think I might have come up with. I'll sum it up under four headings: lens speed, DOF, focusing and metering. Lens Speed Argumenting that the 4/3 sensor is only 1/4 of a 35 mm film, some articles conclude that a R lens of aperture 2, when used with the Digilux 3, will only correspond to an aperture of 4. I say that is not so. True, a lens made for 4/3 in total "emits" less light than a 35 mm lens and using that smaller amount of light on a 35 mm film frame would require some compensation, eigther in time or in aperture. So in some sense the argument is correct. But the argument cannot be reverced the way it has been in some places. When using R lenses on a 4/3 system the sensor can be seen as a 25% crop of the 35 mm film frame. That crop area has, of cause, per square mm been given just as much light as the rest of the 35 mm frame. A R lens with an aperture of 1,4 is therefore just that - a lens with aperture of 1,4 - even when used on the Digilux 3. Shooting the same surface with a Summicron-R 50 set at aperture 2.0 and the kit Vario Elmarit at 50/3,5 easily shows the obvious. To get the same brightness you'll have increase the time shooting with the kit lens by 3. Summicron-R 50 at aperture 2 and 1/20 s. The kit lens at 50/3,5 needs 1/5 s. So, the Summicron-R 50/2 is really much faster than the Vario Elmarit at 50/3,5 and it is not - as some have argued - redused to 50/4 on the 4/3 system. R lenses give speed to the Digilux 3 that more than enough make up for the loss of O.I.S. DOF Following the same argument as abowe, it has been said that the R lenses have an increased DOF when used on a 4/3 system. The argument is definitely true for lenses made for the 4/3 system: they have a much wider DOF at the same aperture than a 35 mm lens. And in theory it is true that a R lens on a 4/3 system gets a wider DOF. As the 4/3 sensor can be seen as a 25% crop of the 35 mm film frame, the crop area is in this case of the middle of the 35 mm frame. When it comes to DOF, one can easily figure out that the 4/3 sensor covers the most focused parts, the middle, thus redusing the blurring effect of the R lens. In practise, however, the story is somewhat different. The Summicron-R 50 at aperture 2 and 50 cm away from the subject has a DOF less than +/- 1 mm. So, even if you let the 4/3 sensor cut out just the center of the 35 mm frame, the DOF is much smaller than could normally be accomplished using a lens designed for the 4/3 system. (picts 1 and 2 below) Focusing Manual focus with the Digilux 3 has become quite easy with the v 2.0 firmware upgrade. The little green focus indicator to the right in the view finder is of great help. And I use the Olympus ME-1 1.2x magnifier in front of the somewhat narrow viewfinder of the D3, and that also helps manual focus. So on the whole, manual focusing with R lenses on the Digilux 3 is no big issue. However, the narrow DOF of some of the R lenses create a problem when focusing on moving objects, but that is no issue specific for the Digilux 3. Metering The biggest problem I've had so far is to get the Digilux 3 to get the light metering right. I've found that setting the Digilux 3 to use center weighted metering mode mostly gives the most accurate result. However, the best metering result, if you have the time, is to flip over to Live View mode (LCD), press the AFL/AEL button and then flip back to viewfinder mode. The direct sensor Live View metering is much more accurate than the viewfinders metering. If you turn on AFL/AEL Hold in the menu, this metering operation is quite easy and you can keep the lock for a series of pictures of the same subject. That's it for now. Hope I've been to some help and not to far off track - or that I've been totally wrong! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! DOF using Summicron-R at smallest aperture 2.0 DOF of the kit lens Vario Elmarit 14-50 at 50/3.5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! DOF using Summicron-R at smallest aperture 2.0 DOF of the kit lens Vario Elmarit 14-50 at 50/3.5 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/30119-digilux-3-and-r-lenses-in-practise-and-some-technical-issues/?do=findComment&comment=318473'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 1, 2007 Posted August 1, 2007 Hi pebetz, Take a look here Digilux 3 and R lenses in practise and some technical issues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
goodbokeh Posted August 2, 2007 Share #2 Posted August 2, 2007 How do you gauge the resolution of the 50mm Summicron vs the D3 Elmarit at the equivalent 25mm setting? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 2, 2007 Share #3 Posted August 2, 2007 Received a letter from Leica UK yesterday advising of their offer of £565 discount on the Digilux 3 for existing Leica owners ... reduces the price to £1225 complete with 14-50mm lens ... details available http://www.leica-camera.co.uk Dunk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlitos Posted August 2, 2007 Share #4 Posted August 2, 2007 Peter, I concur with everything that you have said. Very well explained. I to have been using a lot of R glass on my D3, in the main 135mm Elmarit, 180 APO, 90mm 'cron and an old 50 'cron single cam! The results are very pleasing. I particularly like the way out of focus areas are rendered with R glass. The 14-50 kit lens is sharp no doubt, but with my portrait stuff I want reduced DOF and most digi designed lenses just don't do the out of focus areas the way I want them. Karlitos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlitos Posted August 2, 2007 Share #5 Posted August 2, 2007 Peter, I interested in the ME 1 eyepeice adapter you mentioned, I wasn't aware this item existed. Can you tell me though, is it a good fit on The D3 VF? and can you still see the exposure info clearly or is it obscured? Many Thanks Karlitos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted August 2, 2007 Share #6 Posted August 2, 2007 Peter - Thank you. You are doing us a fine service with your experimentation and reporting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie135 Posted August 2, 2007 Share #7 Posted August 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Received a letter from Leica UK yesterday advising of their offer of £565 discount on the Digilux 3 for existing Leica owners ... reduces the price to £1225 complete Something funny going on here. The Classic Camera Company, an official Leica dealer are currently selling D3s on Ebay for this price ( Buy it now), no mention of 'Loyalty Bonus' And the offer price is still twice the price of the L1 in the States. Makesyou wonder how much that wonderful lens costs to make. Brian. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmr Posted August 2, 2007 Share #8 Posted August 2, 2007 Peter: Thank You. This is great as I am about to get a D-3. I have my D-2 for consignment sale, gave up on my M8 (Returned it and will wait for the kinks to be ironed out), Ordered a LX 2, bought the Leica R-4/3 adaptor, and deciding if I need to get Panasonic L1 for $1200 or the discounted, longer warranty D-3 @ $1800. I do have a range of R lens. Heard that teh Black D-3 is coming out in this month? Again... thank you for your summary. This is of great help to me and to a bunch of folks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted August 2, 2007 Share #9 Posted August 2, 2007 Something funny going on here. The Classic Camera Company, an official Leica dealer are currently selling D3s on Ebay for this price ( Buy it now), no mention of 'Loyalty Bonus' And the offer price is still twice the price of the L1 in the States. Makesyou wonder how much that wonderful lens costs to make. Brian. Just checked and can confirm above ... here is the link http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Leica-DIGILUX-3-Digital-Camera_W0QQitemZ280133955527QQihZ018QQcategoryZ31388QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem It is a bit odd ... Dunk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted August 4, 2007 Share #10 Posted August 4, 2007 Peter: Thank You. This is great as I am about to get a D-3. I have my D-2 for consignment sale, gave up on my M8 (Returned it and will wait for the kinks to be ironed out), Ordered a LX 2, bought the Leica R-4/3 adaptor, and deciding if I need to get Panasonic L1 for $1200 or the discounted, longer warranty D-3 @ $1800. I do have a range of R lens. Heard that teh Black D-3 is coming out in this month? Again... thank you for your summary. This is of great help to me and to a bunch of folks. Thought it might interest you that the Panasonic is sold at Best Buy for $999.- (saw it today in the store, not on a web page only! ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dugby Posted August 5, 2007 Share #11 Posted August 5, 2007 Peter, Thankyou for your thoughful thread. I found your approach to be quite thorough. Firstly I totally agree with your written explanation. However for completeness of your report, could you upload a photo of the same image from your Summicron-R 50mm lens set at f3.5. If it's not available, maybe you could do two new photos from both lenses at f3.5.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebetz Posted August 13, 2007 Author Share #12 Posted August 13, 2007 Hi everyone Here is an image from the same series as abowe with Summicron-R 50/2 set at aperture 4, 8 and 16 (as requested by Dugby). From the article in LFI 3/2006 the DOF on a 4/3-lens at f3,5 should be the same as the DOF on at 35mm lens set at f7, so the f8 picture is theoretically most like the 4/3-lens at f3,5. You just judge for yourselfs. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! f4 f8 f16 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! f4 f8 f16 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/30119-digilux-3-and-r-lenses-in-practise-and-some-technical-issues/?do=findComment&comment=328998'>More sharing options...
JBonner Posted August 14, 2007 Share #13 Posted August 14, 2007 I too would be interested in learning more about the ME 1 eyepiece adapter. It sounds a useful addition to the kit. I have found them priced at £40.00 in the UK and $40.00 in the US (the usual mark-up for "treasure island....) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted August 14, 2007 Share #14 Posted August 14, 2007 Nice review. The idea behind the 2x factor in DOF with 35mm lenses is that you will use consistent framing. That means that if you use a 100mm f/2 lens on a 35mm camera, and a 50mm f/2 lens on a 4/3 camera, you will get near-identical results. On the other hand, given that the depth of field is proportional to the distance to the subject squared, if you use a 50mm f/2 lens from a 35mm system on a 4/3 camera, you will have to be twice as far away to get the same framing, and thus the depth of field is four times as great, or two aperture stops higher. The lens doesn't know what camera it is on, of course, it is simply the chosen framing which causes this effect. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluso Posted August 14, 2007 Share #15 Posted August 14, 2007 Hi there, have a look at this link, I use the Pentax magnifying eyecup instead of the ME1 and I am quite happy with it. It definitely gives you a better chance to take a well-focussed photograph without looking for the green dot all the time. It needs some fitting, however. Pentax Sucherlupe an Panasonic L1 - DSLR-Forum You'll need to log in to see the images. cluso Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivi1969 Posted August 23, 2007 Share #16 Posted August 23, 2007 The issue I just found besides the extreme narrow depth-of-field is that when using f2 the actual focus area is always a little closer to the camera than the supposedly focus point, so I have to focus something further... @ f4 and closer apertures the focus is right-on though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlitos Posted August 23, 2007 Share #17 Posted August 23, 2007 I too would be interested in learning more about the ME 1 eyepiece adapter. It sounds a useful addition to the kit. I have found them priced at £40.00 in the UK and $40.00 in the US (the usual mark-up for "treasure island....) I got hold of one for myself. Quite a useful addition. Wouldn't use it a lot, but very handy in lower light. BTW, to answer my own question, all exposue info is readable. karlitos. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougewave Posted October 26, 2007 Share #18 Posted October 26, 2007 Peter, thanks for your yeoman work regarding R lenses! I have been anxious to try them out with my D3. I'm sure I echo others' praises and exhortations; please keep feeding with images and reviews of other R lenses with the D3. Since I have no experience with the R system & lenses, are there any "best in class" or personal favorites of yours? Regarding the use of the Olympus Eyecup ME-1, does it fit directly or is an adapter required? Also, I purchased a Hoodman right angle adapter, which I find is mediocre at best. Do you have any experience with the Olympus Vari-Magni Right Angle Finder for E series. I understand they have adapter rings for the Evolt, but not sure that it would adapt to the D3. Again, thanks for your scholarship and insights. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougewave Posted October 26, 2007 Share #19 Posted October 26, 2007 Peter, you seem so knowledgable about the R lenses. Do know if the Vario- Elmar-R, F 4.5 , 80-200mm 3 Cam lens will fit the R mount adaptor for the Digilux 3? Thanks, Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsolomon Posted October 27, 2007 Share #20 Posted October 27, 2007 Great info - thanks ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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