fotografr Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share #81 Posted October 17, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 10/16/2019 at 9:45 AM, Afairall said: I bought mine earlier this year from B&H -- the sensor was not stated as being replaced on the website but I went in and they confirmed that one of the two they had was replaced in DEC 2018, but they did not have the paperwork to prove it. So I verified by calling Leica and the information was accurate. But I am frustrated because Leica will not provide me with the paperwork as proof because I am not the one who had it replaced. So if I ever decide to sell, the buyer will have to call them to confirm. But be careful, even when buying from a "reputable dealer" such B&H. They were selling both bodies they had for the same price and only one sensor had been replaced. Of course they will tell you this upfront if asked. Good to know. I've seen several MM1 and M9 cameras listed by dealers and individuals that don't mention whether the sensor has been replaced. That's crucial information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 17, 2019 Posted October 17, 2019 Hi fotografr, Take a look here MM1 Value Increasing. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted October 17, 2019 Share #82 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, fotografr said: Good to know. I've seen several MM1 and M9 cameras listed by dealers and individuals that don't mention whether the sensor has been replaced. That's crucial information. Exactly my earlier point, stressed multiple times, including specific suggestion in post #18 to call B&H (rather than speculate). Many dealers don’t list specifics, but will tell you quickly if you call. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share #83 Posted October 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Jeff S said: Exactly my earlier point, stressed multiple times, including specific suggestion in post #18 to call B&H (rather than speculate). Many dealers don’t list specifics, but will tell you quickly if you call. Jeff People can say whatever they want on the phone. Personally, I'd much rather see it in writing before purchasing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 17, 2019 Share #84 Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, fotografr said: People can say whatever they want on the phone. Personally, I'd much rather see it in writing before purchasing. Of course, but are you going to call first to inquire, taking seconds, or just demand a document? And, better yet, stick with reputable and trusted dealers with warranty and return policy in addition to documentation. B&H and KEH, the dealers that I mentioned from the very start here that had reasonably priced MM1s, certainly qualify. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share #85 Posted October 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Jeff S said: Of course, but are you going to call first to inquire, taking seconds, or just demand a document? And, better yet, stick with reputable and trusted dealers with warranty and return policy in addition to documentation. B&H and KEH, the dealers that I mentioned from the very start here that had reasonably priced MM1s, certainly qualify. Jeff I'll just demand a document. But thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 17, 2019 Share #86 Posted October 17, 2019 Any good dealer will provide, typically without request. As mentioned, I got my MM from Josh at Leica Miami, which only sells them with new sensors, yet Josh still provided documentation from them and from Leica without my request. A good dealer will do that. But the process still started with a simple quick call to ask about availability and specifics. And that’s all I suggested from the very start; yet still met with resistance. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share #87 Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 7 hours ago, Jeff S said: Any good dealer will provide, typically without request. As mentioned, I got my MM from Josh at Leica Miami, which only sells them with new sensors, yet Josh still provided documentation from them and from Leica without my request. A good dealer will do that. But the process still started with a simple quick call to ask about availability and specifics. And that’s all I suggested from the very start; yet still met with resistance. Jeff Jeff, you seem acutely concerned about how I spend my time and the process I choose to make purchases. I do appreciate your deep concern for my welfare, but as I explained early on I already have my MM1. I was looking for someone else and he has satisfied his needs, so I think it's time for you to relax and get back to whatever else you were doing. Cheers! Edited October 18, 2019 by fotografr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 18, 2019 Share #88 Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, fotografr said: Jeff, you seem acutely concerned about how I spend my time and the process I choose to make purchases. I do appreciate your deep concern for my welfare, but as I explained early on I already have my MM1. I was looking for someone else and he has satisfied his needs, so I think it's time for you to relax and get back to whatever else you were doing. Cheers! Post #81 shows that you actually do appreciate the information, just not this messenger. It’s information you could have learned in seconds on your own at the very start of this thread. So, yes, wasted time on your part. You’re welcome. Jeff Edited October 18, 2019 by Jeff S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share #89 Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff S said: Post #81 shows that you actually do appreciate the information, just not this messenger. It’s information you could have learned in seconds on your own at the very start of this thread. So, yes, wasted time on your part. You’re welcome. Jeff The only time I've wasted is reading your comments and responding to them, which I'm now done doing. Cheers! Edited October 18, 2019 by fotografr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
T25UFO Posted October 18, 2019 Share #90 Posted October 18, 2019 Just to get back on topic . . . what do forum members think is a fair price for a pristine MM1? Reason I ask is that the Leica Refurbishment program for M9 and M9P cameras (forum link below) now includes the Monochrom 1. Price is 3,500€ (so 500€ more than a refurbished M9P) plus an extra 200€ if you want the Leica script on the top plate. Black or silver chrome available with leather in all colours of the rainbow, as in the original link. Other forum members who have purchased a refurbished M9 all seemed very pleased with the camera. Virtually new condition with shutter actuations in the range 2,000 - 4,000, plus of course a brand new sensor. Not sure how many are left, but seems like a good deal. What do other forum members think? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted October 18, 2019 Author Share #91 Posted October 18, 2019 (edited) About two months ago someone from another forum contacted me to see if I'd be interested in buying his silver MM1. It had just under 5,000 clicks, was near mint with new sensor and he offered it to me for $3700, along with two extra batteries. I considerd that a fair price and bought it. For the M9, it's not so competitive. I helped a friend secure one that was being offered on the Fred Miranda forum for $2400. It had a new sensor, 2200 actuations and looked like it just came off a dealer's shelf. On the same forum I found him a 50mm Summicron made in 1960 that was also mint for $825. He's quite happy with the combo. The deals are out there of you take some time to look. Edited October 18, 2019 by fotografr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted October 18, 2019 Share #92 Posted October 18, 2019 That price seems ok to me for the following reasons: 1. Leica warranty 2. Camera will operate like new 3. New sensor guaranteed 4. M246 is still selling for $8k and 50% people prefer MM1 (arbitrary number guess) 5. May be difficult to find a MM1 from top Leica dealers You may be able to buy one cheaper from a local camera store or eBay but then you have the hassle of concern regarding is it as advertised and if not can you return without hassle. $3.5k Euro doesn't seem bad. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted October 18, 2019 Share #93 Posted October 18, 2019 1 hour ago, T25UFO said: Just to get back on topic . . . what do forum members think is a fair price for a pristine MM1? Reason I ask is that the Leica Refurbishment program for M9 and M9P cameras (forum link below) now includes the Monochrom 1. Price is 3,500€ (so 500€ more than a refurbished M9P) plus an extra 200€ if you want the Leica script on the top plate. Black or silver chrome available with leather in all colours of the rainbow, as in the original link. Other forum members who have purchased a refurbished M9 all seemed very pleased with the camera. Virtually new condition with shutter actuations in the range 2,000 - 4,000, plus of course a brand new sensor. Not sure how many are left, but seems like a good deal. What do other forum members think? Sounds like a very good deal to me... but only if it's including VAT (or if you are not in the EU and there is no import duty on cameras). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted October 18, 2019 Share #94 Posted October 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, ianman said: Sounds like a very good deal to me... but only if it's including VAT (or if you are not in the EU and there is no import duty on cameras). I don't think there is VAT on used camera gear in EU but I could be wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmx_2 Posted October 22, 2019 Share #95 Posted October 22, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 3:30 PM, dkmoore said: I don't think there is VAT on used camera gear in EU but I could be wrong. You are wrong. I cannot speak for whole EU, but at least in Sweden there is VAT also on used goods (and I believe Denmark as well). It’s a sales tax here and it’s the sale that is taxed, not the goods. This also means that for companies and foreigners outside EU you can get 20% back on the sales price, making used cameras actually a quite good deal here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverchrome Posted October 22, 2019 Share #96 Posted October 22, 2019 VAT is charged on used goods in the UK but, unlike new items. you can't reclaim the VAT. That's because VAT is only payable on the profit that the dealer makes on the used item. Leica is selling refurbished items, so the rules there are probably different. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted October 22, 2019 Share #97 Posted October 22, 2019 10 hours ago, mmx_2 said: You are wrong. I cannot speak for whole EU, but at least in Sweden there is VAT also on used goods (and I believe Denmark as well). It’s a sales tax here and it’s the sale that is taxed, not the goods. This also means that for companies and foreigners outside EU you can get 20% back on the sales price, making used cameras actually a quite good deal here. If you look at Leica UKs website there is no VAT on any used gear. It may be a country by country tax as you mention. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted October 22, 2019 Share #98 Posted October 22, 2019 If there is any truth to Leica increasing their prices in the US by 25% to offset the tariffs, the MM1 will definitely increase in value. I think 10K for an M10P would turn away quite a bit of business. There is something about $10k to me that is a turn off. Ive bought new M240, MP240, M10, and M10P but that $2k jump may keep me from buying new moving forward. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted October 22, 2019 Share #99 Posted October 22, 2019 6 hours ago, dkmoore said: If there is any truth to Leica increasing their prices in the US by 25% to offset the tariffs, the MM1 will definitely increase in value. The tariffs, and price increases, apply to lenses....for now. Jeff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted October 22, 2019 Share #100 Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jeff S said: The tariffs, and price increases, apply to lenses....for now. Jeff Yup. and Leica Rumors claims Dec. 1 for cameras...Not a good decision in my opinion. This will put a real strain on the brick and mortar stores in the US, especially those that are privately owned. Thankfully stores like Leica Miami have a cult following (I'm a big fan) and also partake in selling pre-owned so they should be ok. At least we shall hope. And there is a chance that this is all just conjecture but we shall see. Edited October 22, 2019 by dkmoore Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now