Harsh environment and M8 backup

[fursan]

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what leica camera would you use if you were vacationing for a month in

countries with extremes of heat/humidity/dust/sand/rain? reliability and minimum weight are the primary requirements. no hotels/rare electric powerpoints and

definitely no camera shops. travelling by train/bus/four wheelers over rocky surfaces

are a given.

 

secondly what lens/es would you take for general landscapes to environmental images

and would you take a backup body?

 

what other photographic items would you carry with you?

 

would any leica be up to the task?

 

This is not a hypothetical question but a vacation i am in the process of planning.

 

Regards.

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[farnz]

Fahim,

 

Probably an MP with 21/2.8 Elmarit asph, 35/f2 Summicron asph, 50/f1.4 Summilux and 90/f2.8 Elmarit for detail shots with at least twice as much film as I thought I'd need. But if weight was critical then a 28/35/50 Tri-Elmar. If I chose to take a backup it would be a second MP. I'd also take a Stead bean bag Get your STEAD for the Leica M! for long exposures and to use as a pillow if needed. I'd also take a microfibre travel towel Travel Microfibre Beach Towel (of whatever brand) to dry the MP and me, and act as a blanket if needed.

 

Since you've posted this in the M8 forum I guess you're thinking about taking an M8 but, as much as I love my M8, I wouldn't consider taking it into the environmental conditions you've described because of the lack of weather sealing and the absence of power to charge the batteries. Sadly I couldn't recommend any Leica digital camera under these extreme conditions for the same reasons.

 

Pete.

[jaapv]

I am verry sorry for my answer:

I asked myself the very same question for a month in Malawi and Zambia. The only one I could come up with was another M8....

 

 

Where are you going ? The M8 has been taken into the dusty deserts of Namibia several times now (see the thread here and the LFI article.) There were no dust problems. The camera is so well built that the point of weathersealing seems a bit overrated. The ones used in Iraq (also reported on the web) worked flawlessly as well, boating in a moist,salt, tropical environment gave me no problems. A few tips from digital work in adverse circumstances: A Pelican case can be useful, especially if it gets very dusty or moist. Sensor cleaning is best performed in a shower stall (shower off! ) because that is the most dust-free place, lens-changing to a minimum, another argument for a second M8, take a small screwdriver, as Leica lens-mounts tend to rattle loose.Mechanical shocks from off-road driving are normally not harmful for a sturdy camera, but take care that it does not jump off the seat. For power, well, lodges and camps usually have battery charging facilities nowadays, if only solar or generator driven, as virtually all visitors need those for their digicams and camcorders. And I plan to take plenty of batteries. I am confident it will perform brilliantly.

[jaapv]

Fahim,

 

Probably an MP with 21/2.8 Elmarit asph, 35/f2 Summicron asph, 50/f1.4 Summilux and 90/f2.8 Elmarit for detail shots with at least twice as much film as I thought I'd need. But if weight was critical then a 28/35/50 Tri-Elmar. If I chose to take a backup it would be a second MP. I'd also take a Stead bean bag Get your STEAD for the Leica M! for long exposures and to use as a pillow if needed. I'd also take a microfibre travel towel Travel Microfibre Beach Towel (of whatever brand) to dry the MP and me, and act as a blanket if needed.

 

Since you've posted this in the M8 forum I guess you're thinking about taking an M8 but, as much as I love my M8, I wouldn't consider taking it into the environmental conditions you've described because of the lack of weather sealing and the absence of power to charge the batteries. Sadly I couldn't recommend any Leica digital camera under these extreme conditions for the same reasons.

 

Pete.

 

He asked for a backup for the M8, Pete. I tried film back-up, but film and digital on the same trip is a nightmare when working the shots back home. As I posted above, either another M8 or something like a Digilux2 or D-lux 3. Or go all-film,as you say.

[chris_tribble]

From where I stand you ALWAYS need a backup body (and it's best if you've got a pair of equivalents in my experience).

 

If you have Leica lenses and there will be a hotel or two along the way where you can charge batteries, I see no reason for not taking two M8 bodies (apart from budget!). That way you can also minimise lens swapping and dust ingress. I could imagine a really valid trip with just a 28 + 50. Even better if you could take these two + 15 CV and either 90 or 130. This really does cover a lot of angles.

 

If you HAVEN'T got any Leica equipment, it's another story. Starting from scratch, low budget and happy with film, used .72 finder M6 / M6TTLs are incredibly good deals at the moment. Get two of these + CV lenses and you could do a lot worse.

 

IMHO either of these combinations beats humping an SLR and large glass around... Of course if you want to cover everything from wildlife to street documentary you'll have to do some more thinking...

 

Hope this helps ...

[fursan]

Pete,

 

Thanks for your response and personal recommendation. You are correct, I have a M8

and am looking for a backup for it.

 

Regards.

 

Fahim,

 

Probably an MP with 21/2.8 Elmarit asph, 35/f2 Summicron asph, 50/f1.4 Summilux and 90/f2.8 Elmarit for detail shots with at least twice as much film as I thought I'd need. But if weight was critical then a 28/35/50 Tri-Elmar. If I chose to take a backup it would be a second MP. I'd also take a Stead bean bag Get your STEAD for the Leica M! for long exposures and to use as a pillow if needed. I'd also take a microfibre travel towel Travel Microfibre Beach Towel (of whatever brand) to dry the MP and me, and act as a blanket if needed.

 

Since you've posted this in the M8 forum I guess you're thinking about taking an M8 but, as much as I love my M8, I wouldn't consider taking it into the environmental conditions you've described because of the lack of weather sealing and the absence of power to charge the batteries. Sadly I couldn't recommend any Leica digital camera under these extreme conditions for the same reasons.

 

Pete.

[fursan]

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Jaap, appreciate you taking the time to reply. I am planning to take a trip in my

own country across the empty quarter and reach southern part which is magnificent

and very rocky and hilly ( green too! ) then along the coast of the arabian sea into

the gulf states where humidity is approaching 97-99% with temps touching 50C.

 

While our cities, towns and villages are modern, once you venture into the desert

it becomes a desolate landscape. Just planning with some friends.

 

previously i have already wrecked 2 d70s and a d200 in the with so much sand

that nikon called the cams a piece of junk! 3 lenses went with sandblasts across

the glass and the movement. one d70s just had its plastic melted.

 

right now it is 47-48C here in riyadh.

 

have a nice day.

 

 

 

I am verry sorry for my answer:

I asked myself the very same question for a month in Malawi and Zambia. The only one I could come up with was another M8....

 

 

Where are you going ? The M8 has been taken into the dusty deserts of Namibia several times now (see the thread here and the LFI article.) There were no dust problems. The camera is so well built that the point of weathersealing seems a bit overrated. The ones used in Iraq (also reported on the web) worked flawlessly as well, boating in a moist,salt, tropical environment gave me no problems. A few tips from digital work in adverse circumstances: A Pelican case can be useful, especially if it gets very dusty or moist. Sensor cleaning is best performed in a shower stall (shower off! ) because that is the most dust-free place, lens-changing to a minimum, another argument for a second M8, take a small screwdriver, as Leica lens-mounts tend to rattle loose.Mechanical shocks from off-road driving are normally not harmful for a sturdy camera, but take care that it does not jump off the seat. For power, well, lodges and camps usually have battery charging facilities nowadays, if only solar or generator driven, as virtually all visitors need those for their digicams and camcorders. And I plan to take plenty of batteries. I am confident it will perform brilliantly.

[jaapv]

Fahim (I assume that is your first name, I sometimes get confused..) that sounds like a wonderful trip. You should read this thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/20154-namibia-m8-harsh-test-report-back.html as the conditions in Namibia are comparable to the ones you are going into. I think his idea of taking two M8's ,one with a WATE and one with a MATE is very good, because dust is the main enemy.Heat I think the M8 can take , there is very little plastic on it to melt down;) , and it should certainly be more robust than the Nikons. On the other hand, a Digilux2 should be able to take this as well.

[Frank Sprow]

I travel very extensively in Africa and Asia (just about to leave for Afghanistan). I take my M8 and an M7 with a kit of lenses (28, 50 and 75). On return I just have the slide film (Velvia) scanned and dump everything into Lightroom. Works great for me.

[chris_tribble]

Fahin - if you do take the M8 into this environment, it would be great if you could post back to the Forum - I should think that Leica would be interested in hearing about the experience too!

[blakley]

I agree with the film camera backup plan for a couple of reasons.

 

The first is just that I really like to have a fully mechanical camera with me when it matters. But the second is that it expands your lens range when you travel with an M8 and an MP or M2. Because of the 1.33 crop, you effectively get two lenses for the price of one. If you carry a 28/2, a 50/1.4, and a 90/4, you have effectively:

 

28/2 MP => 35 M8

50/1.4 MP => 75 M8 (well, a bit short, but nearly)

90/4 MP => 135 M8 (again, a bit short)

 

Since I almost never use lenses longer than 75 except outdoors in daylight for landscapes or critters, just carrying the two bodies with lenses (usually the MP+28 and M8+50) gives me the full lens set just by swapping; I can carry the 90 in a little pouch, wear the MP around a neck and shoulder under my jacket, and carry the M8 with the strap wrapped around my left wrist, and I don't even need a camera bag - just a couple of rolls of Delta 400 in a pocket and a backup M8 battery and memory card in the other pocket.

 

Though I've used the M8 in light rain, I must confess I'd probably leave it behind in a downpour and just rely on the MP. And if there's a power outage or I'm out in the bush for a couple of days, I know I can still shoot.

[dpattinson]

Assuming that you want the backup for use only when your M8 is kaput, and you want that backup camera to be digital - I have seen some pretty good results from the V-lux1, and there are a host of other cheaper cameras (Olympus 5050) like it that should do in a pinch. The benefit of this option is that if it's nasty weather (dust) you can just use this one and leave the M8 out of it. That way you can toss a cheaper camera at the end of your trip.

 

Personally I would pack a film body and a stack of film in a sealed, insulated and padded box, since I presume the weight won't be an issue and you can use your M lenses. If the M8 gives out you can open it up.

 

The M8 charger has a vehicle plug adapter - I assumed this would work in the cigarette lighter of a 4wd - but maybe not?

 

You should consider taking a cloth bag with a drawstring top to store the M8 in when you are not shooting, I have heard other forum members recommend linen. This helps to keep dust off, and won't abrade the camera.

 

Make sure your gear is in a white bag or case, this makes a huge difference in extreme heat - black bags heat up extremely quickly. I used to use a giveaway KFC insulated bag for carrying 4x5 darkslides in very hot weather - worked very nicely

 

Probably goes without saying, but filters will help prevent the front of your lenses getting abraded.

 

You can use tape to cover controls like the buttons on the back to prevent dust getting in. You can press the buttons by feel through the tape. Same goes for the wheel (however you'd lose the rotation - only use the buttons). You can also tape over the usb port, baseplate and even the shutterspeed wheel if you are shooting auto-exp.

 

Definitely get some durasec protectors for the screen: falcixx - Manufacturer of DuraSec screen protections

 

In terms of lenses, I'd say the 28/35/50 tri-elmar if you have it to avoid lens changes, along with say a 21 or WATE, and a 90. If you like shooting in the evening/morning then maybe a 35/50 lux as well. The aperture is not so important if you plan to use a tripod, which since you're in vehicles may be worth taking. I second the beanbag suggestion, great for shooting from the cab or out the top of the vehicle.

 

hth, David.

[jaapv]

I doubt that it is a good idea to take film into an area that has temperatures up to 50 celsius or even more - that is over 120 fahrenheit! for any length of time - certainly not a month.

[dpattinson]

I doubt that it is a good idea to take film into an area that has temperatures up to 50 celsius or even more - that is over 120 fahrenheit! for any length of time - certainly not a month.

 

It cools down at night, and a sealed insulated box will keep beer cool all day in 45 celcius (in the shade) - so I'm guessing that it will do just fine for film at 50. If you want to get really outback style, you can wrap the box in a wet towel (keep it damp). I've backpacked with film at temperatures up to 45 for a week or so, and the film was fine - the inside of my pack never made it anywhere near 45 degrees.

 

The M8 would melt your hands off if you left it in the sunshine for more than an hour or so at that temperature, lord knows what would happen to the internals. Covering it with a white or reflective bag or cloth makes a huge difference to the amount it heats up.

[fursan]

Jaap,

 

yes, you got my first name right. thank you for your advice. WATE is not currently on my

shopping list, as i have everything from 21 to 90 covered except the 24 elmarit.

i do tend to feel, as you have mentioned, that film and digital do not mix. film will

not survive the heat. i know that from my spotmatic and f2 days.

 

regards.

 

Fahim (I assume that is your first name, I sometimes get confused..) that sounds like a wonderful trip. You should read this thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/20154-namibia-m8-harsh-test-report-back.html as the conditions in Namibia are comparable to the ones you are going into. I think his idea of taking two M8's ,one with a WATE and one with a MATE is very good, because dust is the main enemy.Heat I think the M8 can take , there is very little plastic on it to melt down;) , and it should certainly be more robust than the Nikons. On the other hand, a Digilux2 should be able to take this as well.

[fursan]

Frank,

 

Thanks for your very viable solution. however, know from experience that film cannot

stand the heat. ok in our all terrain vehicles outfitted with fridge, but only for a small

time.

 

regards.

 

I travel very extensively in Africa and Asia (just about to leave for Afghanistan). I take my M8 and an M7 with a kit of lenses (28, 50 and 75). On return I just have the slide film (Velvia) scanned and dump everything into Lightroom. Works great for me.

[fursan]

Chris,

 

I agree with you. 2 bodies is a must. if i travel with a cam, it is always with 2 bodies.

you guys have given me a lot of suggestions to mull over. Thanks.

 

best.

 

From where I stand you ALWAYS need a backup body (and it's best if you've got a pair of equivalents in my experience).

 

If you have Leica lenses and there will be a hotel or two along the way where you can charge batteries, I see no reason for not taking two M8 bodies (apart from budget!). That way you can also minimise lens swapping and dust ingress. I could imagine a really valid trip with just a 28 + 50. Even better if you could take these two + 15 CV and either 90 or 130. This really does cover a lot of angles.

 

If you HAVEN'T got any Leica equipment, it's another story. Starting from scratch, low budget and happy with film, used .72 finder M6 / M6TTLs are incredibly good deals at the moment. Get two of these + CV lenses and you could do a lot worse.

 

IMHO either of these combinations beats humping an SLR and large glass around... Of course if you want to cover everything from wildlife to street documentary you'll have to do some more thinking...

 

Hope this helps ...

[fursan]

sure, will do.

 

 

 

Fahin - if you do take the M8 into this environment, it would be great if you could post back to the Forum - I should think that Leica would be interested in hearing about the experience too!

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[fursan]

Bob,

 

your suggestion/s are worthy of serious consideration. i am torn between the robustness of film ( medium ) to

survive the heat/dust versus the sensor/electronics to pack up.

 

 

I agree with the film camera backup plan for a couple of reasons.

 

The first is just that I really like to have a fully mechanical camera with me when it matters. But the second is that it expands your lens range when you travel with an M8 and an MP or M2. Because of the 1.33 crop, you effectively get two lenses for the price of one. If you carry a 28/2, a 50/1.4, and a 90/4, you have effectively:

 

28/2 MP => 35 M8

50/1.4 MP => 75 M8 (well, a bit short, but nearly)

90/4 MP => 135 M8 (again, a bit short)

 

Since I almost never use lenses longer than 75 except outdoors in daylight for landscapes or critters, just carrying the two bodies with lenses (usually the MP+28 and M8+50) gives me the full lens set just by swapping; I can carry the 90 in a little pouch, wear the MP around a neck and shoulder under my jacket, and carry the M8 with the strap wrapped around my left wrist, and I don't even need a camera bag - just a couple of rolls of Delta 400 in a pocket and a backup M8 battery and memory card in the other pocket.

 

Though I've used the M8 in light rain, I must confess I'd probably leave it behind in a downpour and just rely on the MP. And if there's a power outage or I'm out in the bush for a couple of days, I know I can still shoot.

[fursan]

David,

 

taking 2 bodies is for eachone to be a b/u for the other with different lenses on each

to minimise dust ingress. to tell the truth i want to test the m system to the extreme.

i could always borrow my wife's g7 and tell her i was taking pro advice!

 

regards

 

Assuming that you want the backup for use only when your M8 is kaput, and you want that backup camera to be digital - I have seen some pretty good results from the V-lux1, and there are a host of other cheaper cameras (Olympus 5050) like it that should do in a pinch. The benefit of this option is that if it's nasty weather (dust) you can just use this one and leave the M8 out of it. That way you can toss a cheaper camera at the end of your trip.

 

Personally I would pack a film body and a stack of film in a sealed, insulated and padded box, since I presume the weight won't be an issue and you can use your M lenses. If the M8 gives out you can open it up.

 

The M8 charger has a vehicle plug adapter - I assumed this would work in the cigarette lighter of a 4wd - but maybe not?

 

You should consider taking a cloth bag with a drawstring top to store the M8 in when you are not shooting, I have heard other forum members recommend linen. This helps to keep dust off, and won't abrade the camera.

 

Make sure your gear is in a white bag or case, this makes a huge difference in extreme heat - black bags heat up extremely quickly. I used to use a giveaway KFC insulated bag for carrying 4x5 darkslides in very hot weather - worked very nicely

 

Probably goes without saying, but filters will help prevent the front of your lenses getting abraded.

 

You can use tape to cover controls like the buttons on the back to prevent dust getting in. You can press the buttons by feel through the tape. Same goes for the wheel (however you'd lose the rotation - only use the buttons). You can also tape over the usb port, baseplate and even the shutterspeed wheel if you are shooting auto-exp.

 

Definitely get some durasec protectors for the screen: falcixx - Manufacturer of DuraSec screen protections

 

In terms of lenses, I'd say the 28/35/50 tri-elmar if you have it to avoid lens changes, along with say a 21 or WATE, and a 90. If you like shooting in the evening/morning then maybe a 35/50 lux as well. The aperture is not so important if you plan to use a tripod, which since you're in vehicles may be worth taking. I second the beanbag suggestion, great for shooting from the cab or out the top of the vehicle.

 

hth, David.