geoffreyg Posted September 11, 2019 Share #41 Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) There is definitely a pleasure and relaxed quality in looking through a glass viewer, such as the M. However, the EVF in the CL surprisingly has its own rewards. I wear glasses, and have a hard time seeing the full frame of the M viewer. In the CL - I can wear them, or not wear them, and get the benefit of changing the diopter on the fly. Seeing all the info, shooting to a live histogram, seeing DOF live... well, I hated EVF in its early versions, and now enjoy the heck out of the CL. Sometimes... gotta go with the flow. Edited September 11, 2019 by geoffreyg Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 11, 2019 Posted September 11, 2019 Hi geoffreyg, Take a look here Leica CL, buy now or wait?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rob_w Posted September 11, 2019 Share #42 Posted September 11, 2019 (edited) For several reasons I would love to have a camera which combines an optical M viewfinder with autofocus lens focussing rather than a rangefinder, if such a thing were ever made. The IQ of the EVF is pretty good as others have said. But the lag in what you see versus what is actually happening leads to timing errors with critical shots and this can be tedious because there is almost no way to avoid it. Edited September 11, 2019 by rob_w Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkS Posted September 11, 2019 Share #43 Posted September 11, 2019 Am 29.08.2019 um 01:50 schrieb matteolesinigo: Considering again to sell everything to get the CL and targeting the 3 zoom lenses. Any suggestions? Buy it now! Otherwise your wife could spend the money for shoes, bags, cosmetics,...….. ;-) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 11, 2019 Share #44 Posted September 11, 2019 50 minutes ago, rob_w said: But the lag in what you see versus what is actually happening leads to timing errors with critical shots and this can be tedious because there is almost no way to avoid it. There is no significant EVF lag on the CL, with M lenses at least. Did you try to disable auto review? 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 11, 2019 Share #45 Posted September 11, 2019 Not with TL lenses either, and the AF lag is minimal as well in decent light. No perceptible difference to any DSLR. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicholasT Posted September 22, 2019 Share #46 Posted September 22, 2019 (edited) On 8/31/2019 at 11:02 PM, matteolesinigo said: Just got today a used CL Kit with 18-56. I already love the compactness of the camera and the incredible build quality. Tomorrow I'll start trying a bit outside but up to now I am super happy and excited of the decision. Thank you all for the support, discussion and opinions. Happy shooting Matteo Congrats on your CL purchase! Hope you're enjoying the camera. I'm late catching up with this thread but since you just purchased this camera I'd like to offer encouragement regarding your lens options. I respectfully disagree with those who focus solely on the 35 1.4 as the only quality option for this camera and criticize the zooms as being too slow. The 35 1.4 is certainly a "must have" for this camera and the zooms while slow are simply outstanding. The quality of the output at almost all focal length more than makes up for slower aperture. Let's not forget the 18mm, 23mm and 60mm or new Sigma 45mm prime offer additional options. While they also may not be absolute fastest primes they are stellar image makers and so very compact that one can take 3-4 lens on a shoot carrying less weight as a single fast full frame prime Not all photography takes place at F 1.4 to F 1.8. In fact if folks checked their LR library I believe many would be surprised to find that a relatively small % of their images were actually taken at below F2 (portrait photographers excluded). Also often times even the images taken at fast apertures didn't truly require the absolute fastest lens or in some cases the composition or acuity would have benefited from having the lens stopped down. I'm not looking to start an argument about the merits of fast lens ( I love them myself), I'm simply suggesting that keep in perspective this apparent "need" for fast lens versus the importance of balancing one's kit so one is more likely to actually be out there shooting rather than having an incredible collection of fast lens gathering dust on a shelf. But if fast lens and ultimate IQ is what is needed or desired on the CL there are some excellent additional options starting with the SL Summicron's. I've been using the SL 90 F2 on the CL. It's a little larger than the 35 1.4 (which I also own) but I find it balances beautifully on the CL and is a pleasure to use. Also having owned the SL one would be hard pressed to tell the difference in IQ between SL and CL using same SL lens, other than the difference in perspective and minor loss of bokeh. I assume that all the SL primes perform equally well on the CL with similar handling since they are all pretty much equal in size and weight. Point being that there's already a good complement of lens options that work well on the CL ( finances permitting ) and things will only get better over the next couple of years as more L lens are released by Leica, Panasonic and Sigma. Heading out for a daytime shoot? CL + 11-23 + 35 1.4 + 55-135 will cover pretty much any shooting situation one is likely to encounter with total weight of under 2kg. Heading out at dusk or in low light conditions take 35 1.4 and one or two SL lens and 18mm (or 11-23) and with exception of having to rely on high ISO at the wide end of things most shooting situations are covered. In both cases (day or night) kit will fit in relatively small sling or shoulder bag for a very comfortable walk in the city or countryside. Will I purchase the SL2? If it has IBIS and improved AF absolutely. Will I give up my CL as my primary camera in favor of the SL. Not a chance! The CL is the camera that I'm most likely to have with me in most shooting situations and its the one that "inspires" me to get out and shoot instead of looking for excuses not to do so. I believe you made a wise choice to purchase CL now instead of waiting. Anything is possible, but I'd be surprised if you are experiencing any buyers remorse since acquiring your CL some 3 weeks ago. Happy shooting! Edited September 22, 2019 by NicholasT 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saptarshi Posted September 23, 2019 Share #47 Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I will mention one case of buyers remorse - the changing effective focal length of m lenses on the cl(not cl’s fault) I like 24 mm fov and 35 effective fov when the 24 was attached to the cl irked me no end. - iirc I couldn’t do exposure locking. yes a lovely camera but it’s those little things that I couldn’t get over. saptarshi Edited September 23, 2019 by saptarshi Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M11 for me Posted September 23, 2019 Share #48 Posted September 23, 2019 Exposure locking? It can‘t do that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saptarshi Posted September 23, 2019 Share #49 Posted September 23, 2019 It can if you half press the trigger, but then how to refocus? On autofocus cameras (e..g Fuji XT/ Leica SL), there was a button to lock the exposure and then one can refocus. On the CL, (maybe an update fixed it?), I couldn't do that. On the M10, I'd half press the trigger and just manually focus. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicholasT Posted September 23, 2019 Share #50 Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) The issues mentioned while definitely annoying don't rise to the level of buyers remorse, at least in my view. That said, we all have different shooting priorities so one person's minor annoyance is another person's deal breaker. Regardless as has been mentioned firmware updates could fix most of these issues. Leica has been rather slow in addressing them, with the wandering focus issue being the most glaring issue of all. This issue is the subject of a separate thread and if comments in that thread are any indication its the #1 issue to be addressed in the minds of most CL users. Edited September 23, 2019 by NicholasT 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 23, 2019 Share #51 Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, saptarshi said: It can if you half press the trigger, but then how to refocus? On autofocus cameras (e..g Fuji XT/ Leica SL), there was a button to lock the exposure and then one can refocus. On the CL, (maybe an update fixed it?), I couldn't do that. On the M10, I'd half press the trigger and just manually focus. Cheers Well, you could, of course, refocus manually on the CL as well. Actually it is easier to turn a focus ring than to find a button blind. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 23, 2019 Share #52 Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, NicholasT said: The issues mentioned while definitely annoying don't rise to the level of buyers remorse, at least in my view. That said, we all have different shooting priorities so one person's minor annoyance is another person's deal breaker. Regardless as has been mentioned firmware updates could fix most of these issues. Leica has been rather slow in addressing them, with the wandering focus issue being the most glaring issue of all. This issue is the subject of a separate thread and if comments in that thread are any indication its the #1 issue to be addressed in the minds of most CL users. We all have our different gripes. The wandering focus point doesn't bother me much. I don't use touch AF or any touch function, and only use the rear screen for menu changes and chimping, so my nose is not a problem. Focus point recentering would be nice to have as an assignable button option - if there was a suitable button: see below. My gripe is the lack of back button focus (aka focus lock), as is available on the SL. this may have to await a CL2: I think the CL is one button short of the right number. Edit. Thanks to @Tim B (post #60 below) I've just realised I was wrong, and that one can assign AF lock to the Fn button, as of the last firmware update. It would still be useful to have another button to assign this to uniquely (it will have to share my Fn button with User Profiles) Edited September 23, 2019 by LocalHero1953 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicholasT Posted September 23, 2019 Share #53 Posted September 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said: We all have our different gripes. The wandering focus point doesn't bother me much. I don't use touch AF or any touch function, and only use the rear screen for menu changes and chimping, so my nose is not a problem. Focus point recentering would be nice to have as an assignable button option - if there was a suitable button: see below. My gripe is the lack of back button focus (aka focus lock), as is available on the SL. this may have to await a CL2: I think the CL is one button short of the right number. The wandering focus is a problem for me because I would like to make use of the touch AF but have disabled it just to avoid this issue. Not exactly what Leica should be forcing its customers to do...Wandering focus is a software fix that should have been addressed a long time ago. On the other hand I totally share your frustration re missing back button focus. I recently switched from Nikon to Leica and back focus is the single feature I miss the most from my D4s, D750 etc. I'm so conditioned to having this capability that I've had occasion to test a new camera at camera store press back focus button and turn to the salesperson and indicate that focus is not working on their demo camera, completely forgetting that back-focus is not a "default" on new cameras. Hopefully Leica will add this extra button in CL2. Personally that feature alone would justify the upgrade. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 23, 2019 Share #54 Posted September 23, 2019 3 hours ago, NicholasT said: ...................................................... Hopefully Leica will add this extra button in CL2. Personally that feature alone would justify the upgrade. Yes, it would for me as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 23, 2019 Share #55 Posted September 23, 2019 On 9/11/2019 at 5:14 AM, rob_w said: For several reasons I would love to have a camera which combines an optical M viewfinder with autofocus lens focussing rather than a rangefinder, if such a thing were ever made. The IQ of the EVF is pretty good as others have said. But the lag in what you see versus what is actually happening leads to timing errors with critical shots and this can be tedious because there is almost no way to avoid it. That was the Contax G system: optical with AF and "not quite an M" but decent framing indicators. Had one. Lenses were terrific, auto exposure always on the mark, but AF drove me nutty. I finally ended up selling it (at a huge loss) and buying another Leica M. I like the CL and its viewfinder so much now I sold off my M-D typ 262, which I thought I'd never sell. Eternity is too large for human consciousness... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted September 23, 2019 Share #56 Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, saptarshi said: I will mention one case of buyers remorse - the changing effective focal length of m lenses on the cl(not cl’s fault) I like 24 mm fov and 35 effective fov when the 24 was attached to the cl irked me no end. - iirc I couldn’t do exposure locking. yes a lovely camera but it’s those little things that I couldn’t get over. saptarshi You simply needed different lenses for a different format, a 24mm and a 16mm instead of a 35mm and a 24mm. Exposure lock: half press on the shutter release or switch to manual exposure mode. I don't see the big deal here. Edited September 23, 2019 by ramarren 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 23, 2019 Share #57 Posted September 23, 2019 Probably the misconception of “changing focal lengths” Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted September 23, 2019 Share #58 Posted September 23, 2019 5 hours ago, NicholasT said: Hopefully Leica will add this extra button in CL2. Personally that feature alone would justify the upgrade. I think that Leica will have a solution for you soon. Buy an SL2 😉 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicholasT Posted September 23, 2019 Share #59 Posted September 23, 2019 1 hour ago, nicci78 said: I think that Leica will have a solution for you soon. Buy an SL2 😉 I do like your thinking. For SL2 my standards are a little higher. I don't ask for much just IBIS and some AF improvement and my name goes on the list Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim B Posted September 23, 2019 Share #60 Posted September 23, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, M10 for me said: Exposure locking? It can‘t do that? Yes, as of the last Firmware update the CL can have the right control button, or the FN button programmed to select AE lock. And, I think, although I don’t need this for my purposes, AF lock - someone correct me if this is incorrect. At last we have a one button toggle on/off AE lock button, which I find very helpful as it has been part of my MO for years on non-Leica equipment. The only slight functional glitch is that it resets after exposure. But that could be seen as a good thing if one overlooked the setting for a further exposure. There is another thread with details of this. My CL is even more of a keeper now. Tim Edited September 23, 2019 by Tim B 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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