Copyright Questions

[jaapv]

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On this forum, we are very strict on copyright rules, and justly so. If one cannot trust a Photography forum to maintain the rights of copyright owners, who can we trust? So moderators will delete any copyright violation that comes to their attention.

However, some members do have a blanket -and legal- copyright waiver and pay for it. In the Netherlands that is the "Sichting Reprorecht" , a government body. I pay to them (required by law) and so I do have the right to download and redistribute copyrighted work, the licensing is handled by this body. Now my dilemma is, is it socially acceptable for me  to publish third-party work on this forum? Not that I would make a habit out of it...

[earleygallery]

It's all so confusing, we have rules over 'fair use', 'creative commons' etc. 

Or there's "Publish and be damned!" - Duke of Wellington

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[pico]

3 hours ago, jaapv said:

In the Netherlands that is the "Sichting Reprorecht" , a government body. I pay to them (required by law) and so I do have the right to download and redistribute copyrighted work,

Regardless of Stichting Reprorecht, this forum is considered under German Law which prevails. No?

 

[jaapv]

Yep, but it may well integrate across the EU, I wouldn't know.

[LocalHero1953]

I've never heard of such a waiver. I suspect it's a Netherlands thing. I thought the whole point of copyright was so the owner could control use. A blanket waiver (unless the owner has signed up to it, like the Performing Rights Society for musical performances in the UK) makes nonsense of such a notion. 

[jdlaing]

4 hours ago, jaapv said:

On this forum, we are very strict on copyright rules, and justly so. If one cannot trust a Photography forum to maintain the rights of copyright owners, who can we trust? So moderators will delete any copyright violation that comes to their attention.

However, some members do have a blanket -and legal- copyright waiver and pay for it. In the Netherlands that is the "Sichting Reprorecht" , a government body. I pay to them (required by law) and so I do have the right to download and redistribute copyrighted work, the licensing is handled by this body. Now my dilemma is, is it socially acceptable for me  to publish third-party work on this forum? Not that I would make a habit out of it...

Most copyright protection is for commercial purposes. They do not want you selling or making a profit from it. As long as the copyright information is posted with it I wouldn’t see a problem in it.

[earleygallery]

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42 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I've never heard of such a waiver. I suspect it's a Netherlands thing. I thought the whole point of copyright was so the owner could control use. A blanket waiver (unless the owner has signed up to it, like the Performing Rights Society for musical performances in the UK) makes nonsense of such a notion. 

As I mentioned above there is 'fair use' of copyrighted material allowed.

[jaapv]

Not everywhere. In Germany, for instance not. There is a "Zitatrecht" but it is far more limited than "fair use"

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, LocalHero1953 said:

I've never heard of such a waiver. I suspect it's a Netherlands thing. I thought the whole point of copyright was so the owner could control use. A blanket waiver (unless the owner has signed up to it, like the Performing Rights Society for musical performances in the UK) makes nonsense of such a notion. 

The body does the licensing with the owner, so copyright remains in control of the owner. Music is something else. For use of music we have a similar system, called "BUMA/STEMRA" They collect money from commercial users and pay out rights. Both are just a layer between author and end user.

 

[LocalHero1953]

3 minutes ago, jaapv said:

The body does the licensing with the owner, so copyright remains in control of the owner. Music is something else. For use of music we have a similar system, called "BUMA/STEMRA" They collect money from commercial users and pay out rights. Both are just a layer between author and end user.

 

For images, does the copyright owner have to sign up? If they don't, how can the user (you) know if they have or not?

[jaapv]

I wouldn't know. It is something that comes out of our lawmaker's minds, I am just forced (as a business) to pay the fees. Even if I would never use the Internet.

[farnz]

8 hours ago, jaapv said:

Now my dilemma is, is it socially acceptable for me  to publish third-party work on this forum? Not that I would make a habit out of it...

Personally I'd like to see a statement each time explaining that it's not your own work, which shouldn't be difficult and I feel sure you wouldn't want to take credit for someone else's work.

The concern I would have is a resulting presumption by some members that it's okay to post someone else's work when they don't have the rights that you do and that they're not aware of.  Monkey see, monkey do.

Pete.

[jaapv]

Exactly my concern, Pete. I think I'll stick to my no-no policy.

[UliWer]

I think the Dutch „Stichting Reprorecht“ is similar to the german „GEMA“ (for music) or other societies for written works,  pictures etc. 

For example music from records played in a disco, so the owner of the disco has to pay a certain amount to GEMA to acquire the right to use the recorded music. The sum he has to pay depends on the size of his establishment: less for a small party with some dozen people, much more for a big hall with possibly thousand attendants. He only acquires the right to play the music in his own disco, not to copy it on different media and play it elsewhere. To do this he would need the full copyright, which the society cannot and does not sell. 

Your idea would be the same as a visitor of the disco saying: „I paid something to GEMA, now please play the records I brought with me.“ It‘s clear that this doesn‘t work. The owner of the Forum who is responsible for respecting copyright laws would have to acquire the rights, not only a single user. To do so would be very, very difficult for the owner and extremely expensive, for he had to acquire all different publishing licenses from many different copyright owners in many different countries to publish them worldwide. 

So I‘d say it will be better to keep the present rule that you have to own the full copyright to publish something here. 

 

[jaapv]

The difference being that I have purchased the right to download and redistribute digital matter - much against my will, but required by law. It is similar to taxes 😡 . The forum owner could hold me liable and I could prove that I bought off the copyright.

I suspect that, in the end, art. 13 will be smothered in constructions like this.

[UliWer]

So, even if I never heard of „Stichting Reprorecht“ and they never knew me, they gave you the rights to distribute anything from me?

[jaapv]

I suppose you should send your bill to them

[Exodies]

So if we sent you our pictures we intended posting on the forum you could post them and we could bill the Dutch government? Sounds like a good deal.

[jaapv]

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