m9photo Posted August 23, 2019 Share #21 Posted August 23, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) More importantly price must be right! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 23, 2019 Posted August 23, 2019 Hi m9photo, Take a look here rumors SL2 with 36MP sensor only. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Chaemono Posted August 23, 2019 Share #22 Posted August 23, 2019 vor 4 Minuten schrieb mmradman: This is 2019 and competition and L partner are showing way forward for the industry, SL successor need a little bit more than sexy new body, specifically improved innards with IBIS and LENR control, improved AF, robust ISO and DR performance. As for Mp let’s wait and see. The better the algorithms the less small pixels suck. From Sony.net below. Miniaturization inevitably requires software optimization. I’m not sure this appeals to me. Perspectives from the creators of the image sensor “microcosm” “One of the drawbacks to miniaturization is that sensitivity declines...As pixels become smaller, the sensitivity inevitably declines. In other words, the quality of the resulting image will also decline or the noise will increase, hindering all the functions that we have already achieved,...Since miniaturization of pixels inevitably results in a decline in sensor characteristics, our role was to compensate through signal processing [algorithms].” https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/technology/stories/IMX586/index.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted August 23, 2019 Share #23 Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, nicci78 said: ......His message : do not buy S1 or S1R you will regret it ! SL2 is awesome and it is around the corner Leica is not afraid at all from Panasonic and Sigma competition. Until Leica offers us a tele converter for the 90-280mm or the ability to mount other tele lenses (e.g. Canon EF 400 f4) on the SL, I'm sticking with the S1R. In my case I find the Vario Elmar SL 90-280mm too short for bird photography. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted August 23, 2019 Author Share #24 Posted August 23, 2019 It quite makes sense to choose 36MP or 37.5MP (exact same count as S typ 006 & 007) because Leica cannot provide two SL2 bodies, one with 24 and the other with 47MP à la Panasonic. So why not choose the middle way ? If Leica can produce very high speed with 36MP why not. Such 36MP can be shared with future M11. I am not sure, if we will be able to focus 47MP accurately enough M lenses with a rangefinder ? 36MP may be easier ? 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedro Posted August 23, 2019 Share #25 Posted August 23, 2019 1 minute ago, nicci78 said: It quite makes sense to choose 36MP or 37.5MP (exact same count as S typ 006 & 007) because Leica cannot provide two SL2 bodies, one with 24 and the other with 47MP à la Panasonic. So why not choose the middle way ? If Leica can produce very high speed with 36MP why not. Such 36MP can be shared with future M11. I am not sure, if we will be able to focus 47MP accurately enough M lenses with a rangefinder ? 36MP may be easier ? my thinking also Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 23, 2019 Share #26 Posted August 23, 2019 vor 34 Minuten schrieb michali: Until Leica offers us a tele converter for the 90-280mm or the ability to mount other tele lenses (e.g. Canon EF 400 f4) on the SL, I'm sticking with the S1R. In my case I find the Vario Elmar SL 90-280mm too short for bird photography. We know. And use the Canon 400 f4 DO ISII to post pictures in the ‘S1R & S1 + Leica Lens Image Thread.’ 😂 There is an ‘Images with L Mount cameras and lenses’ thread just above it in case you didn’t notice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent M10 Posted August 23, 2019 Share #27 Posted August 23, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, michali said: Until Leica offers us a tele converter for the 90-280mm or the ability to mount other tele lenses (e.g. Canon EF 400 f4) on the SL, I'm sticking with the S1R. In my case I find the Vario Elmar SL 90-280mm too short for bird photography. I think I read somewhere that Leica has a tele-converter. They call it the CL. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tailwagger Posted August 23, 2019 Share #28 Posted August 23, 2019 Personally, if true, it makes the SL2 more appealing to me assuming the DR exceeds that of the S1R by a couple of stops. Having had 40/50MP MF cameras in the past, 40MP was more than enough and frankly I don't enjoy dealing with processing raw files through a couple of steps that results in passing around tiffs that approach a GB. The downside for Leica, of course, is they'll have to endure another four years of comparisons to 60mp FFs and 100MP MFs. And though it bothers me not in the slightest, heaven help them, at least on this board, if by going their own way the fail to deliver IBIS. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted August 23, 2019 Share #29 Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) I hope at least that September will finally bring the announcement (availability is still another story). 36 or 47 MP is not so crucial in the end. LENR could be more critical, or ibis and high res (sensor shift). Again I am glad about the alliance - there is still the S1R, if the SL2 is not making everyone happy (as far as we know Leica, I could almost bet that that will be the case ...) . About DR: I don’t think there are sensor chips with a lot more DR at all. So probably no chance to get a “big improvement”. Edited August 23, 2019 by caissa 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted August 23, 2019 Share #30 Posted August 23, 2019 20 minutes ago, Tailwagger said: Personally, if true, it makes the SL2 more appealing to me assuming the DR exceeds that of the S1R by a couple of stops. Having had 40/50MP MF cameras in the past, 40MP was more than enough and frankly I don't enjoy dealing with processing raw files through a couple of steps that results in passing around tiffs that approach a GB. The downside for Leica, of course, is they'll have to endure another four years of comparisons to 60mp FFs and 100MP MFs. And though it bothers me not in the slightest, heaven help them, at least on this board, if by going their own way the fail to deliver IBIS. Sounds like there will be IBIS for sure... if you base anything on the people here (who may or may not have any real info). I must say though... I'm a bit surprised by the 36mp. I thought for sure it would be 47 for sure. 36 is so 4 years ago 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted August 23, 2019 Share #31 Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) Yes, 36 sounds a bit lowish for 2020. The camera will certainly not be available this year for the masses. But it is an opportunity to save money .... (and omit this camera) The only problem I see, if sale numbers are too low, then there is maybe no SL3 anymore ... Edited August 23, 2019 by caissa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted August 23, 2019 Share #32 Posted August 23, 2019 1 hour ago, nicci78 said: It quite makes sense to choose 36MP or 37.5MP (exact same count as S typ 006 & 007) because Leica cannot provide two SL2 bodies, one with 24 and the other with 47MP à la Panasonic. So why not choose the middle way ? If Leica can produce very high speed with 36MP why not. Such 36MP can be shared with future M11. I am not sure, if we will be able to focus 47MP accurately enough M lenses with a rangefinder ? 36MP may be easier ? Why can't Leica make two SL2 bodies? I don't see anything stopping them. The sensors are available. Much of the hard work is already done by Panasonic regarding algorithms and processing. Leica could make two bodies that are a bit smaller and prettier without IBIS. It'll actually be more work and more money to make a unique sensor. The only real advantage is market differentiation. Whatever they decide they'll need to make a decision between speed and resolution. If they go down the speed route they'll need loooong lenses or they'll be crucified. If they go resolution they'll need to dump LENR and maybe have high res mode or they'll be crucified. Knowing Leica they'll do whatever they want and they'l get crucified. For me? I'm very happy with both my SL bodies and S1R. The SL2 will need to have some real advantages over the S1R for me to buy one. And if it has mandatory LENR I definitely won't, regardless of how *fast* it is. I almost never shoot under 40MP any more because between the Z7 (small), S1R (medium) and X1D (large) I don't get any real world advantage carrying a lower pixel camera or even an APSC system. Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caissa Posted August 23, 2019 Share #33 Posted August 23, 2019 (edited) Speedier than the SL (maybe 15 frames), but with the AF of the S1R. (5 frames in continuous mode) Who needs that ? Not really consistent. There are also other features like 6K/30 that help in some circumstances. Will Leica use again a Maestro processor ? And how does it compare to the S1R processor (which is it ?) ? Can it be faster and how much ? I still would prefer 47 MP because of the missing long lenses (400 or 500 or 1.7x extender for the zoom) as it allows cropping. Edited August 23, 2019 by caissa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donzo98 Posted August 23, 2019 Share #34 Posted August 23, 2019 11 minutes ago, caissa said: Speedier than the SL (maybe 15 frames), but with the AF of the S1R. (5 frames in continuous mode) Who needs that ? Not really consistent. There are also other features like 6K/30 that help in some circumstances. Will Leica use again a Maestro processor ? And how does it compare to the S1R processor (which is it ?) ? Can it be faster and how much ? I still would prefer 47 MP because of the missing long lenses (400 or 500 or 1.7x extender for the zoom) as it allows cropping. Not to mention you could have 2.5 S1R's for the price of 1 SL2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 24, 2019 Share #35 Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) vor 6 Stunden schrieb Tailwagger: The downside for Leica, of course, is they'll have to endure another four years of comparisons to 60mp FFs and 100MP MFs. Inferior pixels that are aided by algos. But the algos can’t always compensate well enough. Better pixels than more, please. It could be an issue from a marketing perspective for sure. vor 6 Stunden schrieb Tailwagger: ..., at least on this board, if by going their own way the fail to deliver IBIS. SL2 would be dead in the water if Leica didn’t deliver it. I’m on the waiting list. 😉 vor 5 Stunden schrieb Donzo98: Not to mention you could have 2.5 S1R's for the price of 1 SL2. It’s all hypothetical. Jono hasn’t said a word and he knows. Probably has a NDA, though. 😁 Let’s assume it’s true. The SL2 will have to offer some value beyond the red dot and a nice looking body to entice a number of former Leica customers who use Panasonic now to switch. I agree. Edited August 24, 2019 by Chaemono 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Q Posted August 24, 2019 Share #36 Posted August 24, 2019 I'll buy it if they make the size similar to the X1D. The Panasonic bodies are way too big and bulky for me. If they include PDAF and exclude LENR, I may even sell my Hassy and Fuji bodies and go all-in on the SL system. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
michali Posted August 24, 2019 Share #37 Posted August 24, 2019 7 hours ago, Agent M10 said: I think I read somewhere that Leica has a tele-converter. They call it the CL. Yep, I just bought a CL this week. Great little camera! The SL 90-280mm becomes a 420mm on the long end. However I find that around 500mm to 560mm is ideal for bird photography. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicci78 Posted August 24, 2019 Author Share #38 Posted August 24, 2019 (edited) Leica will just be up trend with 36MP replacing 24MP as their lowest MP count. Because right now 60MP start to replace 42/45/47MP sensors. Canon will launch next month the M60 with 32.5MP APS-C. And there is a rumoured 70MP 5DSR mark II Next high end APS-C will reach 36MP very soon. So Full frame needs 36MP as their base MP count. Edited August 24, 2019 by nicci78 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 24, 2019 Share #39 Posted August 24, 2019 If it’s 36 MPx, I wonder if it could be with this sensor: https://www.diyphotography.net/60mp-and-36mp-sensors-with-8k-video-could-be-coming-to-the-sony-a7iii-a9ii-and-a7riv/ 10 fps @ 16 bit, 2 stops of DR improvement, on-chip PDAF. Sony will apparently make the sensor available to third parties. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted August 24, 2019 Share #40 Posted August 24, 2019 vor 8 Stunden schrieb Donzo98: 36 is so 4 years ago It’s not. Only for those in a state of MPx trance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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