Leica APO summicron 50 SL vs Summilux 50 SL?

[Chaemono]

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb Mr.Q:

Seriously though, the link you provided in post #56 is a poor attempt at a comparison imo. There is a lot of camera shake and mis-focus. Look at the bottom 2 photos. The M10 is focused on the chest of the bird while the X1D is focused well below the bird's feet.

Well observed. The reason is, the AF of the X1D is not that accurate. I made the mistake and relied on it. I’ll eventually rent it, again, use manual focus, and compare it either to the S1R to match resolution or to the SL2 with the SL Summicrons. 😁

[Mr.Q]

54 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

Well observed. The reason is, the AF of the X1D is not that accurate. I made the mistake and relied on it. I’ll eventually rent it, again, use manual focus, and compare it either to the S1R to match resolution or to the SL2 with the SL Summicrons. 😁

Fair enough. I honestly think the lenses are on a similar tier optically though. I'm sure the 50/1.4 and 90/2 SL lenses are close in performance to the 80/1.9 and 135/2.8, for example. These lenses are all Otus-level, so there's little merit in comparing them. 

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[Fedro]

5 minutes ago, Mr.Q said:

Fair enough. I honestly think the lenses are on a similar tier optically though. I'm sure the 50/1.4 and 90/2 SL lenses are close in performance to the 80/1.9 and 135/2.8, for example. These lenses are all Otus-level, so there's little merit in comparing them. 

the xcd lenses are nothing short of spectacular, the SL crons are great too (and so are the zooms) but AF on the SL is not that good. I would expect the SL to have more responsive AF than a MF camera, but in low light or moving subjects, results are far less than impressive. Hopefully the SL2 (or 3 or 4) will be better

[Fedro]

13 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

Hey Fedro,

While 35mm has way more lens options and is far more mature than digital MF (let's face it, current MF offerings aren't 6x6 Hasselblad by any stretch), I'm not convinced about cramming smaller pixels into the same real estate.  If you look at pixel pitch (the horizontal distance from one pixel to the next):

• 24MP APS-C - 3.91µm
• 24MP full frame - 6µm
• 50MP full frame - 4.3µm
• 37.5MP  S(007) - 6µm
• 50MP X1D 50c - 5.3µm
• 64MP S3 - 4.5µm

there is a clear advantage in the increased real estate offered by a 44x33 sensor in an X1D 50c over the 24MP APS-C cameras and the 50MP 35mm cameras, and to a degree over the S3 with its similar 45x30 sensor (though I have considerable faith in Leica).  In short, I have limited interest in a full frame camera with smaller pixels, when I can get the resolution, dynamic range and colour from a larger sensor in a camera not much bigger than an SL.

Now, I got a bit in the shit when I canceled my X1D order by saying that the SL was a better camera than the X1D and by the time Hasselblad sorted out the X1D, Leica would have updated the SL and would still be ahead.  Some here were a little offended at my dismissal of the X1D, and I guess that was understandable.  But, I was disappointed with the X1D as it was clearly unfinished, and the SL was and remains an excellent camera - I won't be selling mine.

However, I won't be buying an SL2, whatever it has to offer.  My SL does what I want perfectly (I don't suffer from Gordon's LENR nightmares).  I don't need better AF (I press the joystick and then focus manually), or anything else.  It's perfect the way it is.  Why an X1D II 50c?  It has the same old sensor from Sony, and it's the same camera with a better processor, better LCD and probably the camera that Hasselblad should have released in the first place (much like the M10 over the M(240) in my view).

Well, there's no getting over the advantages of real estate over density.  The Sony 50c sensor remains fantastic, and adding the X1D II to my cameras gives me another alternative, particularly for landscape.  It may turn out to be a waste of time (it's all very well having the technology available, but if you don't have the skills to make the most of it, you're wasting your time).

We'll see.

hi John

I follow your logic and it makes good sense. I love the X1D and it is a great camera for certain applications I am definitely interested in the SL as I see them as complimentary but would love to see better ergonomics and AF and no LENR. We will see ..

enjoy the X1D the files are some of the best (and malleable) I have ever seen

[Donzo98]

It's here... @ F2

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[ropo54]

Don:

12 minutes ago, Donzo98 said:

It's here... @ F2

 

 

Congratulations!  Looks superb. Rob

[Jeff S]

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16 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Whoever gets the X1D at this stage and does not wait to see what the SL2 will be about is making a mistake IMO. 

I don’t mind your comment at all, but you’ve hereby relinquished any right to play forum cop regarding OT discussion (see thread title). And especially ironic  given the same X1D vs SL2 comparison that you chastised me and others for in the other thread.

Carry on.

Jeff

[Chaemono]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Jeff S:

And especially ironic  given the same X1D vs SL2 comparison that you chastised me and others for in the other thread.

Carry on.

Jeff

LOL. Not ironic at all. We don’t even know what the SL2 is. It makes, therefore, no sense to compare it with any camera at this point, particularly in a thread titled “Leica APO Summicron 50 SL vs Summilux 50 SL?” My appeal to wait and not to get the X1D at this stage should be seen in the context of attempts to do so.

Edited September 6, 2019 by Chaemono

[Jeff S]

5 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

LOL. Not ironic at all. We don’t even know what the SL2 is. It makes, therefore, no sense to compare with any camera at this point.

You just wrote that one should wait to make the comparison.  Exactly what I wrote in the other thread that I plan to do.  Ironic.  And still OT.

Jeff

[prismstorm]

On 9/4/2019 at 6:08 AM, Donzo98 said:

Totally agree... the 50 SL is so GREAT. If the APO is close in terms of background blur... the size and faster AF will have me switching.

I got lucky... someone had one, and decided to sell. Right place, right time.

Having owned and used both, what are your thoughts so far? Does the APO 50/2 come close to the Lux in terms of background blur, rendering and overall IQ? I compared the MTF curves of both and the new APO 50/2 actually has significant better curves than the Lux even at stopped down apertures. I own the Lux 50/1.4 and it has served me well so far, aside from the slightly slow AF, but is now tempted to switch to the APO 50/2 for the smaller size and weight, and seemingly even better optics.

Would be interested to know your thoughts. 

On 9/4/2019 at 8:24 AM, giampo said:

I own both lenses, but after testing out the cron, I'm selling the lux.
The foundamental reason is that the lux is too big, while I did not find it too heavy using it with the SL, it is just fine. Also because the cron is not a feather light lens anyway.
Other reasons are that for my photography f2 is enough and if I want less DOF I will just use the 90 SL, also I find out that for sharpness at infinity on planar subjects (landscape) the cron is better than the lux.
If your sbjects are mainly people, prefer f1.4 and are a bokeh addictid, you would prefer the lux I guess.

So by your last sentence, the Lux is still ahead in terms of background blur and rendering for people shots? I own the Lux and am tempted to switch to the new APO 50/2 Cron, and having looked at the MTF curves the new Cron seems to be ahead on contrast and resolution above even the 'reference' level of the Lux, a fact that seems to be confirmed by your observation that the Cron's sharpness at infinity is above the Lux ....

[Donzo98]

7 minutes ago, prismstorm said:

Having owned and used both, what are your thoughts so far? Does the APO 50/2 come close to the Lux in terms of background blur, rendering and overall IQ? I compared the MTF curves of both and the new APO 50/2 actually has significant better curves than the Lux even at stopped down apertures. I own the Lux 50/1.4 and it has served me well so far, aside from the slightly slow AF, but is now tempted to switch to the APO 50/2 for the smaller size and weight, and seemingly even better optics.

Would be interested to know your thoughts. 

So by your last sentence, the Lux is still ahead in terms of background blur and rendering for people shots? I own the Lux and am tempted to switch to the new APO 50/2 Cron, and having looked at the MTF curves the new Cron seems to be ahead on contrast and resolution above even the 'reference' level of the Lux, a fact that seems to be confirmed by your observation that the Cron's sharpness at infinity is above the Lux ....

Just got it today...will use more thoroughly over weekend. 

 

[LeicaR10]

Prismstorm,   You might consider my comments about both SL lenses in this thread Posts # 3 & # 8.   I have both lenses and based on my genre of photography of landscapes and people they are superb.  It will get down to your personal tastes, photography genre and if you want to shoot one or other, or both like I do.  My clients find the resulting photographs to be amazing and they always vote with their wallets.  I hope this helps.  r/ Mark 

[Chaemono]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb ropo54:

Don:

Congratulations!  Looks superb. Rob

Rob, I think it’s the sharpest of all the SL Summicrons wide open. 

[prismstorm]

3 hours ago, Donzo98 said:

Just got it today...will use more thoroughly over weekend. 

 

Thanks, looking forward to comparison impressions! 

3 hours ago, LeicaR10 said:

Prismstorm,   You might consider my comments about both SL lenses in this thread Posts # 3 & # 8.   I have both lenses and based on my genre of photography of landscapes and people they are superb.  It will get down to your personal tastes, photography genre and if you want to shoot one or other, or both like I do.  My clients find the resulting photographs to be amazing and they always vote with their wallets.  I hope this helps.  r/ Mark 

Read both #3 and #8 and of course your PM message, I guess that in my case I just can't justify owning both SL 50s since I also own the APO-M 50/2, I don't need three 50s lying around, but I do both landscape and people photography (in addition to street), so it's not an easy or swift choice. Am still trying to gauge more owners' experiences before deciding, since trading in will no doubt incur a loss. 

[tom0511]

Also have both now and my impression so far is the Summicron bokeh to very much too my taste and not too much different than the Summilux.  Maybe slight difference in rendering when you compare directly, but I think it can be neglected IMO. If you are interested I can post something at the weekend.

[prismstorm]

25 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

Also have both now and my impression so far is the Summicron bokeh to very much too my taste and not too much different than the Summilux.  Maybe slight difference in rendering when you compare directly, but I think it can be neglected IMO. If you are interested I can post something at the weekend.

So basically the Lux now has no real advantage over the newer APO-Cron? The Lux only has the advantage of one faster stop, but pays this with a weight and bulk penalty? Definitely do post something during the weekend, if the background blur is a closer call the APO 50/2 is a serious proposition. 

[tom0511]

Well, I think everybody should judge himself/herself. Highly subjective and we all know comparison shots are just once scene in one light at one distance.

[tom0511]

f2.0 Summicron

 

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[tom0511]

cant upload... so here dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gc0y1kz9gk74zre/AADF_dtRlWDI7vts1yhvEv6Ra?dl=0

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[tom0511]

Lux f2.0 

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