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Live View and Video black screen problem


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Hi all,

I'm a very happy user of a m 240.  But since some days, when pressing the LV button, I get a black screen. I still can make pictures, so even with black screen, when taking a picture, it just records (just like without LV).  Not so when I make a video, then the screen is also black, but also the video itself is totally black recorded.  I tried to find similar problems on the forum or internet but couldn't find so far, so any help is welcome!

Thanks!

Vincent

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When you push LV button, do you hear the opening shutter ?

When unmounted lens, can you see the opening shutter (seeing the sensor) ?

Try the process of "cleaning sensor" to see if the shutter opens.

If you don't hear it, may it be shutter fault (not open when needed) but operate when tripping the camera.

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Thanks for your reply! When I push, yes I hear a shutter, but indeed, when I try 'cleaning', is see the curtain with the white, grey, black striping and not the sensor!  I did cleaning before, so I know that it was possible before.  So it is a shutter fault probably, but how come I can still take pictures? could it be some software bug?

 

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Very strange behavior.

I've never found this kind of semi-faulty shutter.

Before sending to Leica, just try to update to the last firmware if it's possible, 2.0.5.0 I think, version to verify in Leica's website.

 

If you have the EVF2, try it.

Edited by a.noctilux
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  • 1 year later...

Hi,

I know this is an old thread, but I wonder if it has been resolved or if someone else has had these issues.

My problem is the same as the OP's . Leica M240, EVF from Olympus. Randomly live view does not kick in - even though there is a click. Screen in blank, can take pics, can use preview. But no movies. When I take the lens off I can see the shutter is not open. After pressing live view on and off a couple times, it kicks in. Very unreliable.

Anyone had this issue?

Edited by Adam
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I  did some testing. The M 240 When pressing live view is sometimes keeps the shutter open, sometimes not. The shutter always engages, but does not always stay open (I checked this pressing live view with no lens). I switched batteries, did a reset, cleaned contacts, but nothing has changed. Live view sometimes kicks in sometimes the shutter just opens and closes as if it was taking a pic, but the cam thinks live view is on, movies engage (films darkness) and metering is off the chart since it thinks it is pitch dark. The camera does take regular pics thou, preview works etc.

I have an M240 and MP240, both have had issues, and have had to be sent to Germany for repairs. This M240 needed the whole board replaced two months after purchase. Now it is acting up again - really disappointing to see that such high end gear has so many issues. My other cameras, including a D-lux, have more stable electronics.

 

Attaching a video showing Live View randomly engaging, you can hear the shutter always engaging.

 

Appreciate to hear if anyone knows what this is and what needs to be fixed. Wetzlar is in lockdown and my dealer said no point in sending it now. Unfortunately, the camera is just past warranty.

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I was the OP.   I've sent my M240 to Solms back then, but the price for repair (including CLA) was to high for me (1.450 EUR) to justify it.  Acutally, I'm still using my M240 after 1,5 year without further problems (without the Live View)...  So I'm afraid according to Leica, it is a faulty shutter, but as long as it keeps working, I have a heavy M262 🙂 

Hope this helps...

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Thank you for your reply!! This is very disappointing. This shutter problem is not as isolated as it would seem, after doing a google search I found one more complaint:

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151255

I am sorry to hear that Leica decided to charge you so much for repairs. In my case, the failure is after 2 years of moderate use - that is not something that should be acceptable. My live view functions from time to time, but I wonder if it fails completely how do you clean your sensor.

For now, I am not sending it to Solms because of the lock down, no one is doing repairs - but 1450 Euros for shutter failure is not something I am prepared to pay considering this is a two year old body moderately used only by me.

The M240 shutter should have a much longer life span that just past its 2 year warranty period.

I hope your 'heavy' M262 serves you well for many years :)

 

 

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Sorry to hear that some Leica M240 have this failure.

The good thing with M262 is this kind of failure would not come one day.

 

Adam, Leica AG came back to Wetzlar some years ago.

 

Just a question,

When this failure happened, which lens was attached to the M240 ?

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Thanks! The lens I had on  is voiglander nocton 21 mm - have not tested with any other lens yet. They have been on the camera for months, but the problem appeared just recently. At this point, I have tested different batteries, cleaned contacts but nothing changed. I decided to do a reset and leave the camera without a battery for 48 hours. Then I will test it with a different lens, including coded Leica lens.

But from what I can  see from the experience of others this is a faulty shutter. It starts as an intermittent problem then just breaks down completely. I don't mind M262 - but it is hard to use my 21 and 16mm lens. I chose the M240 specifically for the live view, including the occasional movie functionality.

Obviously things happen, but shutter failure after just 2 years of moderate use is really bad! Moreover,  that is not an isolated incident meaning there is a problem either with quality control or design. Either Live view is badly implemented, or there are some faulty M240 shutters out there. 

Oh yes, the move to Wetzlar - I forgot, I never send the cameras directly.

 

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Adam, I asked because on my M240, when I mount an old lens with LTM  adapter, sometimes strange behavior occured.

Something to do with coding/decoding of the reader (or it's circuit).

As side notes,

1 - at one point, if the camera is otherwise correct, I just use as it's intended (no LTM adapter in my case), and for me "problem solved".

2 - when the problem ennoys me, I take the plunge to pay the fix ( if possible of course) as soon as possible, for me the repair budget is part of my hobbies

(as old motorcycle rider for decades ...and not repairing myself)

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Thank you for the advice! Yes I will check with other lens - I still hold hope that the issue can be resolved, I am not optimistic though. My problem seems very similar to those reported by other users indicating that the M240 shutter is prone to this kind of defect, either because of poor engineering or poor quality control that missed a batch of bad shutters.

I agree with your side notes,  and of course a budget for repairs is essential in one's hobby, I have quite a few and have learned this a long time ago the hard way. The problem is that my hobby is no longer photography but repairing my Leica cameras.

- In my budget,  I did not factor is the level and frequency of repairs that is required to maintain an M body. I have two M240 for the past five years (both purchased new from an authorized dealer). Both have been to Wetzlar for major repairs four times, now it will be five. This means that every year one of my M cameras is being repaired. These are never minor repairs. I have  two Nikon's a D-Lux 109 and a Blackmagic video camera. Some of these bodies I have had for over five years - no repairs needed whatsoever. Mind you, I am just an amateur who does not abuse his cameras, on the contrary, I use them moderately.

- The M240 is intended to be used with live view, and to record movies. It is touted, and priced as such.  I cannot use my camera as intended since its shutter has failed after 2 1/2 years of moderate use (I have not even used it for over a 1/2 year because of the pandemic). I expect from Leica a level of engineering that is higher than that of substandard bodies whose components fail just after the warranty period expires.

-  My extensive experience with Leica repairs at Wetzlar has been a disaster. Repairs take too long, the place is a black hole - no info whatsoever. When the camera is returned you get some generic description - motherboard replaced. No explanation, no diagnostic, nothing. When I inquire for more info, I get a reply that this is it. I understand that Blackstone is major investor, I understand that a  new shiny factory costs money, but combine a body that has some serious reliability issues, subpar repair service and exuberant charges for frequent repairs and my future relationship with Leica becomes problematic. 

What keeps me with the system is the exceptional lens. I just wish Leica would get their act together as far as M bodies and make them more reliable, and that they take care of their existing customers, who have been essentially beta testers of underdeveloped digital bodies.

Again thank you for the advice, I really appreciate your help, my apologies if I seem to be venting - but I would like to have a year off from Leica repairs. I will post the results of my tests with Leica lens, etc. I can only hope that this is not major shutter failure after 2 years of use.

 

 

Edited by Adam
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I see.

Thank you Adam to clear things.

For some of us, as I had read,

Leica Services are not top service.

 

As another side note,

With my M10 which becomes hot and hotter, when I use LV or EVF for a while, then shutting it down to cool it on it's own.

I learned to live with that too.

Maybe with M240, it's same temperature sensivity (some sensor inside ?) which can not be "fixed" or something related to temperature.

I don't investigate more, so just a "side note".

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Thank you for pointing that out! M240 has also heat problems - but the shutter issue, if anything, is more prevalent outside in the cold. That is why I initially thought it was a battery problem, but I don't think it is.

 

I don't mind the limitations of M bodies, I bought into the system aware that bulb mode is limited due to ineffective heat management. I'd prefer it to be otherwise, but you learn to work around it, which can turn into a positive exercise in creativity.  Breaking down is a different issue.

Edited by Adam
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Very interesting following this thread.  Especially as I am repeatedly told that there are no circuit board or similar problems by members here.  And I, too, have old Sonys, Pentaxs, Canons that work.  They work just fine even after the magic Leica five year limit which is where I am told that it is reasonable to expect Leica failures. Unfortunately it seems if I want a camera I know I can count on it will have to be the Sony A7M  II.  Or its 20 year old Sony Cybershot cousin.  It is a shame to see this once proud marque beset with preventable problems.  Coupled with denials of these problems on some boards.  One would expect better from "the best" camera.  Once one could. 

Oh, well, they still look nice.  That has to count for something.

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Boojum, please don't take me wrong.

As long time Leica user, I know that for me there is no Leica (at any price) that can pretend "failure-free".

So I accept their failures when in use, and pay when they need some cares.

 

You are lucky to have those that work just fine.

I have /had also those Sony/Canon/Nikon/Pentax/etc. "failures from use", some not repairable and some even cost more money than my Leica(s).

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19 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

Boojum, please don't take me wrong.

As long time Leica user, I know that for me there is no Leica (at any price) that can pretend "failure-free".

So I accept their failures when in use, and pay when they need some cares.

 

You are lucky to have those that work just fine.

I have /had also those Sony/Canon/Nikon/Pentax/etc. "failures from use", some not repairable and some even cost more money than my Leica(s).

Relatively failure free electronics are a fact of life.  I have  20 year old hybrid auto , Honda Insight, that is a mass of computers.  No failures.  I have a 2009 Honda Fit, no failures. I have a 21 year Sony digital camera, no failures.  I have a seventeen year old German (Miele) washer-dryer, no failures.  I have a 30 year old receiver with no failures, Sony.  The Swiss CD player, ReVox, has failed.  I just do not understand this promoted belief that electronics have to fail and that it is normal and acceptable for Leica electronics to fail after five years.  I know that things fail.  I am just appalled at the degree of reported electronic failures.  And earlier than five years, in a camera which touts itself as the pinnacle of camera production.  The folks at Leitz seem to have fumbled the ball.  I have a theory on how and why but I will keep it to myself. 

And, for laughs, I have an '87 auto with no circuit boards which has not failed either, my 2CV.  La Deusch!

Were it my circus I would have made damned sure that world class and better electronics lived inside those Barnack bodies when I started making digital cameras and that heat, were it a problem, would have been fixed in a real hurry.  And how about bigger buffers?  A few field tests would have shown up that big problem.  Maybe it did and was ignored.  The Germans had a track record of stellar products.  It's not just Leitz.  And it is not the Gastarbeiter because this has happened way after the Gastarbeiters came on the scene.  And it is also appalling that I am "lucky" to have Leicas that work.  Think about what you wrote.  People with working Leicas are lucky.  Sheesh.

I've got three of them now, all currently working.  M8.2, M9, M240.  Lets see how long they last.  I'm old, maybe they will outlast me.   ;o)

 

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