Am I certified crazy for considering the M-A?

[otto.f]

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23 hours ago, White Buffalo said:

Who is buying these things though?

White buffalo’s perhaps?

Once a buffalo is white, he shouldn’t try to become black

Edited August 12, 2019 by otto.f

[LocalHero1953]

The trouble is that the wish to own a film Leica is part of human DNA, like original sin. Ever since I first heard of them in the 60s I wanted one, and eventually bought a beaten up M3 in Surabaya in 1980. Its successor, a M2 was sold in 2011 to fund a M9, and its successor, a M240, was sold to fund a CL a couple of years ago.

But I would still like a film M! Even though it has no place in the photography that I do now, and have no time to get into the simple palaver of B&W development and film scanning, let alone darkroom printing.

I'm holding out for the moment, but who knows what camera will be sitting by my rocking chair as I pass 100 years old.

Edited August 12, 2019 by LocalHero1953

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[wattsy]

Yes, Leica M film cameras do have a dual attraction: first, as an almost perfectly functional device for 35mm film photography (within certain parameters) and, second, (probably stemming from the first), as some kind of objet d'art. I think there are other classic mechanical device designs that have also stood the test of time and are also similarly desirable in this dual way. I've no interest in shooting (though I was keen as a teenager) but I find the classic "London" sporting guns (Purdey, Holland & Holland, etc) as eminently desirable mechanical objects. I do have an interest in guitars and am inevitably drawn towards classic designs like the Martin acoustics or the "vintage" Telecasters with brass saddles rather than more modern instruments like those made by PRS or Ibanez. I guess that in addition to the perceived functional perfection (backed up by a long history of production), these desirable mechanical products also come with a brand heritage and history that, as a consumer, you get drawn towards.

[spydrxx]

I'd call it a distinct form of GAS. I remember back in 1967, I'd been thru a couple of rangefinders and then my first SLR, and I wanted the new Pentax Spotmatic, but it wasn't readily available. A good friend, who had been a Leica salesman in a prior life, told me that if I bought a Leica, I'd never regret it...and he loaned me his M3. The quality immediately stood out. When a Leica rep came to where I was living, he had the new M4 and I fell in love. I didn't NEED it...I just WANTED it, and knew I wouldn't be happy if I didn't buy one. It stayed with me 43 years. Eventually I returned to Leicas with an M2 and then a LTM iif. GAS...absolutely, but a lifetime friend, trustworthy, reliable, and always inconspicuously there for me. I see you have ordered the M-A and are now trying to determine which lens is best for, initially. Good luck in your choice...I'm sure you'll really enjoy your Leica gear.

[plaidshirts]

Not at all. The heart wants what it wants. I went for the classic M3, M2 and an M6 TTL for the price of one M-A, however.

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, plaidshirts said:

Not at all. The heart wants what it wants. I went for the classic M3, M2 and an M6 TTL for the price of one M-A, however.

Can’t agree more. Two of these three will certainly be more durable than the M-A, this would count for the M4 too. Buying an M-A is certainly a form of GAS, which is ok, but expensive and not at all more safe than a 50’s or 60’s M. This forum shows various examples of trouble with an new M-A or MP. An M2, 3 or 4 can repaired too, but this feels a lot less frustrating

Edited August 13, 2019 by otto.f

[philipus]

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Based on the first quoted line my spontaneous reaction is absolutely, go right ahead, steer clear of the sign saying don't jump down, and smile all the way down the rabbit hole.

But when I read the bit about the Hasselblad and Pentax cameras, which I understand you don't use for work, I am starting to doubt that you'd be buying the M-A for the right reasons.

Ultimately a film camera is about commitment, not to ownership (unless one is a determined collector) but to usage. 

So the first question you need to figure out is if that is you, that is, if you are a film photographer. 

Just my two Euro cents.

br

Philip

On 8/11/2019 at 9:24 AM, White Buffalo said:

But what if you're sick in the head, super impulsive, and bad with your money like me?

But as with my Hassy 503cw and Pentax 67II, both purchased within the last year, the thought of owning and shooting on them seems much more exciting than the actual reality of owning them and having to deal with all the not fun parts of film. Maybe being smaller/lighter and with more frames at my disposal the Leica would be a more appealing option to me... who knows. 

Am I certified crazy for considering the M-A? 

[Archiver]

It appears that you value the Leica M-A for a number of reasons, including mechanical workings, design and build quality, and a desire to create your own personal history with the camera. These in mind, the optimal solution is to buy the M-A. While it makes more economic sense to get a M4-P, and indeed, you could probably get four M4-Ps for that money, it won't give you the experience of a brand new camera that goes with you to create a new personal journey. If you can afford it, get it. There's nothing like the feeling of a brand new Leica that is yours and yours alone.

I felt similarly about buying the M9, and I haven't bought any other full frame cameras of that nature in the nine years I've had it. Will I upgrade to a later model M at some stage? Maybe. But in the meantime, I'm very happy to work within the limitation of the M9, which has some of the same limitations of film. Next week, I'll be shooting documentary and marketing images with the M9 over several days, and I expect it to give me the goods like it does every time.

Your work is great, and the M-A can definitely take these kinds of images, although you'd be looking more at 75mm or 90mm rather than 85mm due to the M-A's framelines and the lenses typically available.

[otto.f]

2 hours ago, Archiver said:

create a new personal journey

As if you wouldn’t be able to develop a long-term attachment with an M4 bought secondhand. My bond with my M4 is stronger than with quite a few M’s I bought new. I even sold my brand new M6 in the 90’s and returned to an M4. It’s really more about the type of camera you prefer. I indeed love my M9 more than that M6 and will never sell it.

Edited August 15, 2019 by otto.f

[Archiver]

Just now, otto.f said:

As if you wouldn’t be able to develop a long-term attachment with an M4 bought secondhand.

The OP stated he wanted something brand new so that he is sure of its provenance, and it gives him a starting point for creating something new. Of course, you can develop a long term attachment to a secondhand camera, but that's not what the OP wants. He wants something that is purely his. (I just hope he doesn't apply the same desires to his romantic life, haha)

[wattsy]

5 minutes ago, otto.f said:

As if you wouldn’t be able to develop a long-term attachment with an M4 bought secondhand.

Yes, for sure, if that's what you want. Sometimes it's nice to buy something new. I'm not sure why you can't accept that. Yes, you can buy 4 M4 bodies for the price of a new M-A but if you want a new M film camera it's not a relevant consideration.

[otto.f]

3 minutes ago, wattsy said:

I'm not sure why you can't accept that.

I accept my own and other’s GAS perfectly. But read further: the type of camera is more important than it being new. In my history at least. How it lies in your hand, how it sounds, is even between new M-A’s different. So choose the right one, is my advice. I don’t think I introduced money here as an argument

Edited August 15, 2019 by otto.f

[wattsy]

38 minutes ago, otto.f said:

So choose the right one, is my advice. I don’t think I introduced money here as an argument

Well you did, you described the M-A as "expensive and not at all more safe than a 50’s or 60’s M", but I don't necessarily disagree with the gist of your argument. The OP should decide for him or herself and I'm not sure what is to be gained from canvassing the opinion of strangers in a forum like this. (Besides, the OP sounds like the kind of poster we get here regularly who asks a lot of questions but seems to already have all the answers.)

Edited August 15, 2019 by wattsy

[otto.f]

12 minutes ago, wattsy said:

Well you did, you described the M-A as "expensive and not at all more safe than a 50’s or 60’s M", but I don't necessarily disagree with the gist of your argument. The OP should decide for him or herself and I'm not sure what is to be gained from canvassing the opinion of strangers in a forum like this. (Besides, the OP sounds like the kind of poster we get here regularly who asks a lot of questions but seems to already have all the answers.)

Ok that’s true. Money is indeed a relative argument, I was a little shocked the other day to see here at LUF that new M-A’s had types of problems that makes me a bit suspicious about the dedication at Leica to build a nice piece of mechanical engineering these days. 

Relative also in the sense, that in the end a lens is more important than a body, so a 3000€ lens on a 1200€ body is probably wiser than vice versa, assuming you have a reliable and nice M4 for 1200. This was made with a Summicron 28 asph ii on an M4:

https://lotwouda.zenfolio.com/p125475802/ha30e9d81#ha30e9d81

Edited August 15, 2019 by otto.f

[Matlock]

8 minutes ago, otto.f said:

I was a little shocked the other day to see here at LUF that new M-A’s had types of problems that makes me a bit suspicious about the dedication at Leica to build a nice piece of mechanical engineering these days. 

 

https://lotwouda.zenfolio.com/p125475802/ha30e9d81#ha30e9d81

I think these reports have more to do with some posters feeling they have to complain about anything new. I belong to another forum (nothing to do with cameras) where someone complained about a fault on a very expensive and very limited edition item. Almost immediately other complaints flooded in until it was discovered that the number of faulty items was nearly 50% more than had actually been produced. The post was then closed with a warning. There is definitely a culture on this forum of denigrating Leica at every opportunity. If criticism is constructive then it is to be welcomed, but not spurious and unfounded comments.

[Viv]

I fully understand the original poster's bond with build quality, tactile experience and the intangible feel of a Leica film camera.

I am a bit like that myself; it is a feeling that I can't fully explain or rationalise to myself, but it is very real.

I currently use a Leica Q, which serves me very well, but I still hanker after a Leica M. Some years ago I had a Leica M9 but, in all honesty, I found it difficult to work with; in particular, the inconsistent white balance drove me crazy.

As to shooting with film, I had a Zeiss Ikon which I absolutely loved. For me, it had a beautiful tactility and a simplicity of controls which made it a joy to shoot with. But shooting with film nowadays requires serious commitment because, at least in my neck of the woods, the turnaround time foe film development is more than two weeks. And there is the chore of scanning into digital, which is a process I have never been able to do with satisfactory results.

At the end of the day, if one craves something for aesthetic and beauty considerations, one should buy it. Life is too short to act otherwise.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Viv

[logan2z]

16 minutes ago, otto.f said:

I was a little shocked the other day to see here at LUF that new M-A’s had types of problems that makes me a bit suspicious about the dedication at Leica to build a nice piece of mechanical engineering these days. 

What sort of problems are you referring to?  Maybe I've been lucky but I've owned my M-A for two years, have used it a lot, and have had no issues with it. 

[logan2z]

5 minutes ago, Matlock said:

There is definitely a culture on this forum of denigrating Leica at every opportunity.

I've noticed that as well. Very surprising to me for a forum dedicated to the brand. 

[otto.f]

In general I agree w

10 minutes ago, Matlock said:

I think these reports have more to do with some posters feeling they have to complain about anything new. I belong to another forum (nothing to do with cameras) where someone complained about a fault on a very expensive and very limited edition item. Almost immediately other complaints flooded in until it was discovered that the number of faulty items was nearly 50% more than had actually been produced. The post was then closed with a warning. There is definitely a culture on this forum of denigrating Leica at every opportunity. If criticism is constructive then it is to be welcomed, but not spurious and unfounded comments.

In general I agree with you, people are sometimes shocked and nervous after they gave out a lot of money and project this on the product. But these complaints were quite specific and substantive. I really don’t argue against buying an M-A, I just recommend no rush, a trustworthy dealer nearby and a decision that feels good. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by otto.f

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[otto.f]

7 minutes ago, logan2z said:

What sort of problems are you referring to?  Maybe I've been lucky but I've owned my M-A for two years, have used it a lot, and have had no issues with it.