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My daughter has asked for a "real camera" at this point. Her birthday is coming up.  I know that while she has handled my M9 well, it's not probably the best starting point for her.  I am thinking abobut a CL and one of the native lenses versus a Q and am looking for some input!  

Thanks

Lawrence

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How about a used X-Vario. Lovely analogue controls, excellent imaging quality, a good learning instrument, flexible and versatile for most of the subjects she is likely to choose. One piece of kit. No decisions over lens choice. Rugged. Good value for money. If she takes to it, she will be working out the next logical step for her.

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If she's fine with the M9, she might like the challenge of the CL. I have both the CL and the Q and find myself reaching for the CL far more often. It's just a lot more fun to use, IMO. I read a post last year in which the author said he sold his Q because it was too easy to get great photos. At the time, I thought he was nuts, but that's pretty much how I feel now. It drives itself, and even with the manual controls it doesn't feel as if you're nearly so much in the process as with the CL. 

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I would also look at a DL-7. It's easy to carry, good zoom, but more importantly you can set everything to manual if you want to learn and experiment. It also shoots RAW so she can spend time learning Lightroom etc. And finally it's a lot less expensive than a CL!

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Posted (edited)

Q or CL are excellent choice. Both way better than Panasonic D-Lux 7. Hopefully.

Forget X Vario, a fine camera, but way too old and quirky to use. In 2019 she will be disappointed.

CL can be be her sole camera. 

Q may need a sidekick, later on. But Summilux-Q  28mm is gorgeous. 

Edited by nicci78

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If she wants a "real camera" I'm sure that she will want one that allows her to take the lens  off.

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8 hours ago, jaapv said:

If she wants a "real camera" I'm sure that she will want one that allows her to take the lens  off.

As always it depends on how  you define 'real camera'. In  my youth fixed lens RolleI and Zeiss Super Ikonta cameras were the serious cameras used by professionals and war reporters. I could only dream of owning such a real camera. Hasselblad and Leica changed that, yet Rolleis continued in use for many photographers, evolving into wide angle and tele-versions . I see no reason why a novice cannot learn the principles of photography by using a good quality 'bridge' camera, then move on to a system camera when ambitions become more clearly defined?

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2 hours ago, wda said:

As always it depends on how  you define 'real camera'. In  my youth fixed lens RolleI and Zeiss Super Ikonta cameras were the serious cameras used by professionals and war reporters. I could only dream of owning such a real camera. Hasselblad and Leica changed that, yet Rolleis continued in use for many photographers, evolving into wide angle and tele-versions . I see no reason why a novice cannot learn the principles of photography by using a good quality 'bridge' camera, then move on to a system camera when ambitions become more clearly defined?

To add to that I know people who take more interesting and better composed photographs with an iPhone than those with so called “real” cameras and bags full of lenses. Maybe we should focus on “real” photography rather than equipment as the criteria for enjoyment.

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The Q2 seems to be winning the "trendiness" battle by a wide margin, the CL is simply an unremarkable but highly competent camera.  Which she will be happier with depends on too many factors we don't know.  I went with the CL myself, but I'm someone's grandfather 😳 so what do I know!

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The Q2 is lovely, easy to understand and use, and is a fine camera. Suits most purposes well. 

Oddly, the CL is (IMHO) more sophisticated, offering more options and flexibility in the long term. 

For a more digital version of an M, the Q makes a lot of sense. I didn't like the idea of cropping, and had a bunch of M lenses, so am happy with the CL.  

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6 hours ago, wda said:

As always it depends on how  you define 'real camera'. In  my youth fixed lens RolleI and Zeiss Super Ikonta cameras were the serious cameras used by professionals and war reporters. I could only dream of owning such a real camera. Hasselblad and Leica changed that, yet Rolleis continued in use for many photographers, evolving into wide angle and tele-versions . I see no reason why a novice cannot learn the principles of photography by using a good quality 'bridge' camera, then move on to a system camera when ambitions become more clearly defined?

I used to travel with a wide (55mm) rollei and a standard 80 f2.8. The wide was a remarkable camera, a terrific Zeiss Distagon lens. My wife used to say it was sharper than real life. Sent it to Rollei for a CLA and they offered me $3K for it, I had paid $500 for it. From then on my M2s were what traveled with me. Now the CL.

 

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Posted (edited)

Real cameras of my youth included gems like the Rollei 35 and Voigtlander Vito B. And later on a Rolleiflex. Who needs to take the lens off?

Edited by LocalHero1953

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I sold my Q and X Vario to pay for the CL. I’m very happy with my decision. 

Amy

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21 hours ago, ldhrads said:

My daughter has asked for a "real camera" at this point. Her birthday is coming up.  I know that while she has handled my M9 well, it's not probably the best starting point for her.  I am thinking abobut a CL and one of the native lenses versus a Q and am looking for some input!  

Thanks

Lawrence

Why don't you ask her what she'd like? My first 'real camera' was an Argus C3 that my mother gave me when I was 12. My grandfather gave me his Rolleiflex Automat a little later. I never had any trouble using either of them because I was interested in photography. If your daughter is interested in photography, and didn't find the M9 difficult, let her decide what camera she wants. 

The worst thing is to figure out what YOU think is best for your daughter and then she finds she just doesn't like it much. At that point, it's a problem because she doesn't want to say no to a gift that Dad gave her but if the camera doesn't talk to her, well, it's not as easy to be overjoyed. 

You might suggest one thing or the other, but heck: even a 13 year old can be quite capable. One thing is for certain: they're very capable of making up their own mind about what they like or dislike, and if they're interested in something, they learn it very very quickly... :D

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7 hours ago, wda said:

As always it depends on how  you define 'real camera'. In  my youth fixed lens RolleI and Zeiss Super Ikonta cameras were the serious cameras used by professionals and war reporters. I could only dream of owning such a real camera. Hasselblad and Leica changed that, yet Rolleis continued in use for many photographers, evolving into wide angle and tele-versions . I see no reason why a novice cannot learn the principles of photography by using a good quality 'bridge' camera, then move on to a system camera when ambitions become more clearly defined?

Ah, our youth...I was so happy with my Agfa Clack to replace my box camera when I was 12 years of age...

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The X-Vario seems to me to be completely outdated. Its even not sold „new“ anymore. Then I think that a Q/Q2 is a camera for an experienced user who has gone through some stages to understand that for travelling 28mm is perfect and most time fully enough and with Q2 you can even crop if needed (very often with my M I have just the 28mm attached; its my first choice lens). But you have to understand this and want this. As a consequence I would clearly go for a CL with a standard zoom lens. Of course this is an APS-C sensor. But we could read such a lot about this camera to understand that for most applications it performs perfectly well.

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I would buy her a camera where she likes the user interface and more important where she can afford the lenses she wants in a longer term.

So I would let her handle different cameras in a store.

I dont know the age of your daughter but as nice as the X-Vario it is really a slow camera not great for people, action and low light.

If it has to be a Leica the CL would be the most flexible, and also a nice size.

 

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48 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

I would buy her a camera where she likes the user interface and more important where she can afford the lenses she wants in a longer term.

So I would let her handle different cameras in a store.

I dont know the age of your daughter but as nice as the X-Vario it is really a slow camera not great for people, action and low light.

If it has to be a Leica the CL would be the most flexible, and also a nice size.

 

I have a CL but for someone learning the basics of photography, it is not user-friendly in the same way as contenders with visible analogue controls  Slow it might be , not a bad trait when you are learning, the XV is a photographers camera with comparable output to the CL. I use both and can compare those factors.

No camera is perfect for all types of users and mistakes are made in rushing to buy the latest models. There is a good case to visit an occasional camera fair or a dealer with a range of models to try.

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