M10 file numbering anomaly?

[rent]

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I’ve just shot over 10000 images on my M10 (only better photographs from now on - thanks, Henri!) and noticed something strange with the file numbering. 

Sure enough a new folder (something like LEICA_001) was created when I rolled past 9999 shots. However, the files inside this new folder started with L0000001 again. I expected it to be L0010001.

Slightly annoyed, I went to the file naming menu and edited the prefix, changing L000 to L001. Took a test shot and all was well.

After a day’s shooting, I came home with bunch of files correctly named L001xxxx - those were the ones I shot early on in the day. The files from the rest of the day went back to L000xxxx! The last four digits of all the files were in correct sequence though.

It turns out that the file name prefix is tied to user profiles! When I changed the prefix to L001 the night before, I didn’t apply (save) it to any of my profiles. Loading the various profiles throughout the day effectively loaded up the original prefix L000. This was easily fixed by saving the new prefix L001 to each of my profiles.

This strikes me as a bit strange and a chore that needs to be done every 10000 shots. But I guess someone could want different file prefix based on the profile used? Does anyone actually do it that way?

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

6 hours ago, rent said:

I’ve just shot over 10000 images on my M10 (only better photographs from now on - thanks, Henri!) and noticed something strange with the file numbering. 

Sure enough a new folder (something like LEICA_001) was created when I rolled past 9999 shots. However, the files inside this new folder started with L0000001 again. I expected it to be L0010001.

Slightly annoyed, I went to the file naming menu and edited the prefix, changing L000 to L001. Took a test shot and all was well.

After a day’s shooting, I came home with bunch of files correctly named L001xxxx - those were the ones I shot early on in the day. The files from the rest of the day went back to L000xxxx! The last four digits of all the files were in correct sequence though.

It turns out that the file name prefix is tied to user profiles! When I changed the prefix to L001 the night before, I didn’t apply (save) it to any of my profiles. Loading the various profiles throughout the day effectively loaded up the original prefix L000. This was easily fixed by saving the new prefix L001 to each of my profiles.

This strikes me as a bit strange and a chore that needs to be done every 10000 shots. But I guess someone could want different file prefix based on the profile used? Does anyone actually do it that way?

 

No, it's a bit of firmware laziness on Leica's part.  I've protested this and been told by Leica that there is no connection between folder number and file number, thus the three digits that could be updated when you move to a new folder are left unchanged!  Send your comments directly to the customer service email to add your voice on this point.

Edited August 5, 2019 by scott kirkpatrick

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[albertknappmd]

I am sure that they can correct the issue with an upgraded firmware..

As of now, good to know..

Albert

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[norm_snyder]

I just passed 10,000 shots on my M10 and, as with others' experience, it created a new file folder:  Leica101.  However, the file numbering reverted to the previous L1000001, ...002, ...003, etc.  Moreover, on my next SD card used, formatted in the camera, it continued to write to Leica 101 folder, but now has reverted to writing files with numbers in the 9700 range!

With my MM and M9, I was able to renumber files and that sequencing would continue in camera, thereafter.  I am unclear whether the fix in the original post above does anything.  Is there anything new on this subject? 

Edited November 11, 2019 by norm_snyder

[Kwesi]

I Think the issue is that the current firmware can only count up to 9999

it would be great if this was increased in the future. Also the User Profile set up is designed with the assumption that different individuals are using the same camera.

In Reality this does not happen in the Leica M Universe so creating a global numbering system regardless of profile used would make more sense

[Peter Kilmister]

You can alter the settings yourself in the Menu. For instance, you are able to set the sequence to start at e.g. Annnnnnn, Bnnnnnnn, or LEInnnnn or FU2nnnnn. There are so many options that I fail to understand the concern. Maybe it's just me?

[Kwesi]

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The concern is that 9999 is too easily reached and if you aren't aware of the issue you end up with duplicate filenames

[Peter Kilmister]

So choose your own setting. DIMnnnnn isn't difficult to set up!

[Kwesi]

First of all that assumes you are aware  there is a problem.

Secondly, the fix is not global. i.e across user profiles.

What we need is an easy firmware fix. Not half-baked workarounds.

[norm_snyder]

It doesn't appear that the firmware will allow any options beyond changing the first letter of the file name, e.g. Xnnnnnnn, for example.  It will allow, once that file name has been used for 9999 shots, for it to be changed, for example, to XAnnnnnnn, XBnnnnnnn [for the next 10,000], etc. although this has to be done manually.   In contrast, the m8, M9 and MM would allow me to change the numbering [for example X8nnnnnnn for one body, X9nnnnnnn for a second body, and would continue to number, in sequence.  I realize that the EXIF data contains the date the file was created, but it would be much more helpful, were it possible for this to work like the CCD cameras did.  The result, unfortunately, is duplicate file numbers, on the one hand, or an additional thing to remember to do, over time.

Edited November 12, 2019 by norm_snyder

[Mark II]

Yes, the numbering is a pain and I can not think of a justification as to why it has to reset the count to zero after 9999 - it has been decades since the limitations of DOS filing system were lifted.

I avoid duplicate file names by automatically renaming files on import to Capture One. The rename just adds the date as a prefix to the camera’s filename. The raw files are then copied to a date-based directory hierarchy to avoid too many files in one place. 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Mark II

[Kwesi]

On 8/5/2019 at 12:23 AM, rent said:

After a day’s shooting, I came home with bunch of files correctly named L001xxxx - those were the ones I shot early on in the day. The files from the rest of the day went back to L000xxxx! The last four digits of all the files were in correct sequence though.

It turns out that the file name prefix is tied to user profiles! When I changed the prefix to L001 the night before, I didn’t apply (save) it to any of my profiles. Loading the various profiles throughout the day effectively loaded up the original prefix L000. This was easily fixed by saving the new prefix L001 to each of my profiles.

This strikes me as a bit strange and a chore that needs to be done every 10000 shots. But I guess someone could want different file prefix based on the profile used? Does anyone actually do it that way?

I wonder if anyone here can explain Leica's rationale for this.

[rent]

On 11/11/2019 at 11:08 AM, norm_snyder said:

I just passed 10,000 shots on my M10 and, as with others' experience, it created a new file folder:  Leica101.  However, the file numbering reverted to the previous L1000001, ...002, ...003, etc.  Moreover, on my next SD card used, formatted in the camera, it continued to write to Leica 101 folder, but now has reverted to writing files with numbers in the 9700 range!

With my MM and M9, I was able to renumber files and that sequencing would continue in camera, thereafter.  I am unclear whether the fix in the original post above does anything.  Is there anything new on this subject? 

OP here. The issue and “workaround” described above was replicated and verified with a single SD card being used before and after 10,000 shots were reached. 

It sounds like this issue is further complicated by using multiple SD cards. What a mess Leica has created. 

[mujk]

On 11/12/2019 at 1:13 PM, Kwesi said:

I wonder if anyone here can explain Leica's rationale for this.

I don't think there is any. My guess is that this is a bug that wasn't discovered during testing, possibly because they didn't do that many test runs with more than 10000 images.

[NathanD]

I just encountered this problem on a trip overseas. I have a M10-D and can't find anywhere in the app to change the file naming! Does this mean that I am stuck with having to dupicate file names for every 10,000 images!! Or having to rename them on import to C1 or lightroom??

Any ideas or help appreciated!!

 

Nathan

[nocturnal1]

Hi all,

I seem to be experiencing a variation on this theme, namely that whenever I switch user profiles, the file numbering prefixes revert.  I can't get them to remain stable at all. This happened not at 10,000 images, at which point I recall having the typical issue, but a few thousand later--around 11600--after switching a user profile.  The strange thing is it that on my 4 preset user profiles, it drops only the number in the 10,000 place--that is, from L301xxxx to L300xxxx, but on the "standard" profile it reverts to L100xxxx.  File numbering remains otherwise in sequence in last the four digits.  Any advice on how to troubleshoot or manage this?