Revisiting the light leak on the M cameras when taking a long exposure with the Naughtlux

[dkmoore]

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surprised actually, but I guess it is rather heavy. 2 week turn around is fantastic. 

[MarkP]

Sorry aBOUT All the typos in my last post done in a rush on an iPhone

 

The problem is indeed a light leak between lens mounting flange of the camera and lens typically (but not exclusively) in the upper right quadrant under the viewfinder window (but not through the viewfinder window). This happens with long exposures in daylight especially with bright sunlight falling on the abovementioned area.

 

The black scrunchie fixes all!

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/212964-monochrom-long-exposure-issue/ (my post #22)

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/218866-risked-life-and-limb-to-get-this-shot-and-the-7000-piece-of-crap-let-me-down-again/

[otto.f]

6 hours ago, fatihayoglu said:

I don’t understand why Leica wouldn’t fix this problem though. I’ve sent an old 35CronIV for adjustments and CLA with my M10, they’ve found a crack on the lens code reading glass which i wasn’t aware of, and fixed it for free. So I’m surprised they don’t or reject to fix it.

I’ve got the impression that Leica services are too busy, understaffed and less willing to do what’s necessary and reasonable instead of what’s just asked and this more and more so during the last two years. The recent announcement that they won’t repair R camera’s anymore is another example.  They’ve really gone into the digital era now, the repair and maintenance culture has been replaced by the throw away and get a new one culture (without a decent recycle program). Miele (washing machines etc.) is one of the few German companies I know of, who still does these things: repairing a 20 year old washing machine without any detectable move of the eyebrow. 

[otto.f]

6 hours ago, NW67 said:

I had my Noctilux snap off at the bayonet one time............sent back to Berlin from Kuala Lumpur and fixed for free within 2 weeks

Fabulous service

Probably more than 3 years ago.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, otto.f said:

Probably more than 3 years ago.

Not sure but I just shot 74 and lost B200. Not a happy chapped 

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, NW67 said:

Not sure but I just shot 74 and lost B200. Not a happy chapped 

Bandits get everywhere.

[Guest]

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8 minutes ago, pedaes said:

Bandits get everywhere.

Yes they do. Even on here😀😀😀

[Chaemono]

Am 2.8.2019 um 02:12 schrieb MarkP:

The problem is indeed a light leak between lens mounting flange of the camera and lens typically (but not exclusively) in the upper right quadrant under the viewfinder window (but not through the viewfinder window). This happens with long exposures in daylight especially with bright sunlight falling on the abovementioned area.

 

The black scrunchie fixes all!

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/212964-monochrom-long-exposure-issue/ (my post #22)

+1. Every α7R user who took long exposure shots knows that light leaks on the flange can be easily fixed with flexible hair ties around the mount, like kdriceman suggested in the link above. They come in all kinds of colors so it doesn’t have to be black. 

[robert_parker]

The new Nocti 0,95 and 75 are ferociously heavy - I've only had experience of a borrowed one but the 0,95 Nocti makes you carry the camera differently and support the lens by instinct; I understand that the 75 Nocti has a separate tripod location to allow better support.  The 1,0 series seem pretty safe but again that's based on limited experience but if something was getting ripped off / leaking when going around with the 0,95 or 75 it wouldn't come as a major surprise

Edited August 5, 2019 by robert_parker

[250swb]

On 8/1/2019 at 11:35 PM, fatihayoglu said:

Why they don’t fix this light leak issue then?

They don't fix it because it is caused by a combination of the traditional diameter and width of the mount, the proximity of screws to the edges of the narrow mount, and the proximity of the coding sensor to the edge of the mount, so it would need an entirely new mount and lenses to match. These things are exacerbated when other manufacturers M lenses such as CV or Zeiss are used that have a coding grove machined into the flange.

It all means there is a very narrow band of metal that light needs to sneak past and in bright sunshine the leak can show in a 1 second exposure, on a dull day it can show in a 10 second exposure. Back in the days of the M9 we went through this extensively and a hair scrunchy is still the answer because the mount is still the same on the M10. Shading the mount with your hand, standing with your shadow cast over the mount, draping a lens cloth over the mount, or using a parasol are all alternatives that may work.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, 250swb said:

They don't fix it because it is caused by a combination of the traditional diameter and width of the mount, the proximity of screws to the edges of the narrow mount, and the proximity of the coding sensor to the edge of the mount, so it would need an entirely new mount and lenses to match. These things are exacerbated when other manufacturers M lenses such as CV or Zeiss are used that have a coding grove machined into the flange.

It all means there is a very narrow band of metal that light needs to sneak past and in bright sunshine the leak can show in a 1 second exposure, on a dull day it can show in a 10 second exposure. Back in the days of the M9 we went through this extensively and a hair scrunchy is still the answer because the mount is still the same on the M10. Shading the mount with your hand, standing with your shadow cast over the mount, draping a lens cloth over the mount, or using a parasol are all alternatives that may work.

They dont fix it because it will cost money to fix it.........shame on them. 

The MAX 8 is getting fixed because they care .......... well that’s debatable 

leica could and should fix it if they still want to be considered a luxury item

its really a joke it really is. 

[mmradman]

6 hours ago, 250swb said:

They don't fix it because it is caused by a combination of the traditional diameter and width of the mount, the proximity of screws to the edges of the narrow mount, and the proximity of the coding sensor to the edge of the mount, so it would need an entirely new mount and lenses to match. These things are exacerbated when other manufacturers M lenses such as CV or Zeiss are used that have a coding grove machined into the flange.

It all means there is a very narrow band of metal that light needs to sneak past and in bright sunshine the leak can show in a 1 second exposure, on a dull day it can show in a 10 second exposure. Back in the days of the M9 we went through this extensively and a hair scrunchy is still the answer because the mount is still the same on the M10. Shading the mount with your hand, standing with your shadow cast over the mount, draping a lens cloth over the mount, or using a parasol are all alternatives that may work.

Perhaps designed for "decisive moment" photography where exposure was always shorter than 1 second - i say this tongue in cheek.

[250swb]

6 hours ago, mmradman said:

Perhaps designed for "decisive moment" photography where exposure was always shorter than 1 second - i say this tongue in cheek.

Well you aren't wrong at all, how long have we heard the mantra that Leica M's aren't supposed to be used on a tripod? Of course you know this as well as me. Unfortunately as the flexibility of the system evolves so do photographers ambitions.

 

12 hours ago, NW67 said:

They dont fix it because it will cost money to fix it.........shame on them. 

The MAX 8 is getting fixed because they care .......... well that’s debatable 

leica could and should fix it if they still want to be considered a luxury item

its really a joke it really is. 

No, to change things not only requires a new mount, it requires new lens flanges at the same time. The hole has been dug, so to speak.

You could argue all that is needed is a new retro fit flange design that has a rubber gasket, and it would also improve weather sealing. Except the rubber flange would most likely, given the dimensions, intersect with the screw hole depressions and coding sensor, so making a sealing gland pointless. Sooner or later Leica are going to have to separate the 'old' M mount for an 'L' mount M style camera body, probably running two lines alongside for a time. It is the only way they can update both lenses and the body. But hang on a minute, 'thinks', while it's not an L mount haven't Nikon just done the same thing with the Z6/Z7? No long exposure light leaks so far with M lenses on my Z7.....!

Edited August 6, 2019 by 250swb

[pico]

The Canon 7 solved a problem for a heavy lens by having two mounts in one - the interior was Leica thread (LTM) and around that was their proprietary bay mount.  Their monster 50mm ƒ0.95 used it.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by pico
Messed up image insertion

[mmradman]

13 hours ago, 250swb said:

Well you aren't wrong at all, how long have we heard the mantra that Leica M's aren't supposed to be used on a tripod? Of course you know this as well as me. Unfortunately as the flexibility of the system evolves so do photographers ambitions.

 

No, to change things not only requires a new mount, it requires new lens flanges at the same time. The hole has been dug, so to speak.

You could argue all that is needed is a new retro fit flange design that has a rubber gasket, and it would also improve weather sealing. Except the rubber flange would most likely, given the dimensions, intersect with the screw hole depressions and coding sensor, so making a sealing gland pointless. Sooner or later Leica are going to have to separate the 'old' M mount for an 'L' mount M style camera body, probably running two lines alongside for a time. It is the only way they can update both lenses and the body. But hang on a minute, 'thinks', while it's not an L mount haven't Nikon just done the same thing with the Z6/Z7? No long exposure light leaks so far with M lenses on my Z7.....!

There is nothing unfortunate about photographers wanting cameras to be as flexible as possible, having a system which doesn't leak light where it matters is not much to ask.  After all M film cameras do come with "B" shutter setting, however they don't need 6-bit coding.

Assuming that light leaks can be attributed to the introduction of 6-bit coding on lens flange and probably more  due to the presence of the 6-bit reader on the camera flange it may well be that light sealing/leaking was somewhat overlooked.  Leica should provide own brand hair scrunchies with Digital M cameras 😂 - but free of charge, similar to free UV-IR filters at time of M8

[250swb]

I think I was trying for irony by using the word 'unfortunately', for example how many times do Leica release the most perfect camera they've ever made only for photographers to 'break it'?

Yes the typical flare pattern from the leaky mount shows near the edge at the bottom of the final image, as this upside down in the camera the flare is projected from below around the coding sensor. I've used Leica's all my life with a tripod and never had light leaks with long exposures before the M9.

Leica must know this is an ongoing problem, but I guess they never anticipated it because the area where the light leak shows is cropped out of the photo on the M8, so ingraining a flawed design into future models.