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What TL/CL want to achieve that M cannot do?


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It should be among AF, Zoom,  and  EVF, or the combination. But it should not scarify the M elegance and the compactness. 

I cannot see Leica has achieved this goal. 

Apparently SL has different missions, SL is meant to Upgrade the IQ to the MF level with the 35mm. Format sensor and MF body form factor. 

CL/TL has the capability of M IQ with half frame sensor and M body form factor, but Leica has not offer the lens family that matches Leicaphiles expectations yet. At least not in the wide angles. 

 

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Well, 11mm, AKA 18 mm, is not bad at all on the wide end, giving the camera a full coverage by zoom from 18 to 200 mm equivalent, a reportage lens, a fast lens and a macro lens
The CL can take the full palette of M and R lenses - plus more.
The only thing missing is a stabilized long zoom. Not really bad for a relatively young system.

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I cannot make up my mind if I want to see an extended Summicron or Summilux family in TL mount.

The 35 Summilux TL, is very good but bulky.

The 18/2.8 and zooms are rather slow and hence not so good indoors or for focusing in low light level,  yet the high ISO performance of the camera holds up . ( As an aside the CL needs the TL2’s focus scale and the TL2 wants the CL’s easier to see focus peaking ). 

I could get one lens, it’s going to be a 18/1.7 - we get the balance of compact, fast and top quality,  the APS-C equivalent to the Q.

If I could get a second lens, it would be a 28 Summicron - so there is a compact normal lens equivalent of the film CL 40/2.

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I'm clearly not a Leicaphile then. I keep looking at other lenses for the CL & TL2, and each time, on the basis of experience (including experience of my own behaviour), conclude that my photography would not be improved by another lens for them. 

The CL & TL2 are undoubtedly smaller than lighter than the M series. Elegance is in the eye of the beholder, but the TL2 is certainly more streamlined than the M, and the CL is on a par, IMO.

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14 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

It should be among AF, Zoom,  and  EVF, or the combination. But it should not scarify the M elegance and the compactness. 

I cannot see Leica has achieved this goal. 

Apparently SL has different missions, SL is meant to Upgrade the IQ to the MF level with the 35mm. Format sensor and MF body form factor. 

CL/TL has the capability of M IQ with half frame sensor and M body form factor, but Leica has not offer the lens family that matches Leicaphiles expectations yet. At least not in the wide angles. 

 

Not sure what you intended by "scarify": 

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Regardless... 

In my view, the SL is Leica's replacement for the R system. The CL is akin to a lower end version of the SL: a TTL EVF camera with a smaller sensor intended for more casual use at a lower price point. Both achieve TTL focusing and viewing, which enables long lenses and macro close-up work far more easily than be accomplished with a rangefinder viewing/focusing system. 

I used a combination of M and R mount lenses on my SL, and now use the same lenses on my CL. The controls are just fine—different from both the M and the SL but still a compelling design—and the smaller format has some advantages for macro and tele work. The downside of the smaller format is getting lenses short enough for an ultrawide field of view, but that is addressed by the TL11-23 lens, or the Voigtländer 10mm lens quite nicely. 

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I am looking at the Sigma 14-24 f2.8 L mount. Sounds very interesting. Problem with the 11-23 is the f4 (or 4.5) at the 24 end, just a show stopper. f3.5 is OK at 11mm if it was a constant f 3.5 it would be in my bag. The 10mm f5.6 and 15 f4.5 Voigtlanders are also too slow. I am now using a 11-16 f2.8 Tokina from my Nikon kit, but would prefer an L mount lens. BTW I hardly go wider that 21mm so the 14mm wide end would be fine. 

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I'm having no difficulties with the Voigtländer 10mm. I leave it on f/8 almost all the time. It's an ultra wide, not a shallow-DOF-bokeh lens ... one of the things I like about it is that for the vast majority of uses, I set it to 7' focus distance and f/8, just point and shoot. It's making superb photos for me. :)

I set the longest exposure time to 1/60 second and the max ISO setting to ISO 6400. Does just fine on Aperture priority that way. 

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I fit the Summilux-R 50mm f/1.4 when I want an ultra-fast portrait lens. There are also the Leica APO-Summicron-SL 75mm f/2 ASPH and Leica APO-Summicron-SL 90mm f/2 ASPH lenses in native L mount if you want AF. Not f/1.4 but the difference between paper thin and razor thin DOF is mostly insignificant. :D

Edited by ramarren
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