Used Monochrom with original sensor. Should I buy it?

[otto.f]

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The only reason I would not do it, is that you have to wait for the repair, which is notorious in recent years. But a repaired Leica M is mostly better than a new one from the shop, they often do little extra adjustments to let it run smooth.

[John Ricard]

The original Monochrom has a really small buffer (like the M9).  If you like to take a lot of photos of your subject, you may want to consider the newer Monochrom instead.

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[ramosa]

The MM is a great camera, with my favorite sensor ever. However, as someone whose first MM was “consumed” by the Leica sensor repair wait, I would strongly discourage buying one with the original sensor. A year ago, I bought a second MM—old new stock with the new sensor from a Leica dealer. 

[kape06111]

On 7/19/2019 at 2:13 PM, jaapv said:

Personally I prefer the MM1 over the MM2.

Hi, interesting. Can you explain me why.  I thinking into get on L MM, but I’m  doubt which one to buy.

Edited August 17, 2019 by kape06111
Mistake

[LeicaR10]

Kape06111,  If your interest and genre of photography is B&W and shoot often in this medium, I would highly recommend you read several reviews done on both the Monochrom MM1 and M246.  The MM1 has a CCD sensor.  The M246 has a CMOS sensor.  MM1 had sensor issues with corrosion and a number of CCD sensors were replaced by Leica.  I personally had two CCD sensors replaced on my MM1.  If you go the MM 1 route, you should get one with a replaced sensor and paperwork that proves the work was done by Leica.  The M246 didn't have the sensor corrosion issue and performs better at higher ISOs.  IMO, both cameras are excellent and my clients prefer the M246 photographs.  But, from what I know, you might wait a bit longer, like mid-late October as a new MM3 is allegedly forthcoming.  Last, Reid Reviews (a paid subscription) has done comparison tests on both the MM1 and M246.  I believe Thorsten Overgaard has written articles on both and www.StreetSilhouettes.com also has written about them.  You can find all three via Google.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

Edited August 18, 2019 by LeicaR10

[michali]

I'll throw my 10 cents in here.  Just beware of buying an M9 or MM that still has the original sensor!

My 3 cameras, M9, M9P & MM all developed sensor corrosion in early 2015. The 3 sensors were replaced by Leica for no charge in April 2015, before the the new sensor was developed. I sold the M9P immediately thereafter and kept the M9 & MM.

Fast forward to July 2019 both my M9 & MM have again developed sensor corrosion. I'm presently engaged in some arm wrestling with Leica who want to charge me €1, 560- incl. VAT x2 = €3, 160-  to replace the sensors on the 2 cameras. I find this unacceptable.

Alternatively they offer what they call an "attractive upgrade option" to either an M10, M246, SL etc.  This still means that either way the customer has to fork out  over €3, 000-,  granted you get a new camera, but what if as in my case I don't need 2 more cameras? They take your old camera, refurbish it and then resell it.  See:  Refurbished M9 & M9P For Sale       

I then politely enquired if in terms of their "attractive upgrade option" I could trade my 2 cameras in for 1 camera (an MM2) seeing that I already have an M10, an SL and a CL, plus film MP, M6, M4, M3, not to mention a collection of antique Leica cameras dating back to 1932, and therefore don't really need 2 more cameras.

Their reply was contained in a curt 1 line email : "This is not possible."  That's it, no Dear Sir, no Kind regards, nothing just a 1 liner.

 Leica's attitude is pay the money, take it or leave it! 

I've now taken the discussion higher up the chain of command at Leica, let's see where this ends.......

Edited August 18, 2019 by michali

[MarkP]

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On 8/18/2019 at 5:51 PM, michali said:

I'll throw my 10 cents in here.  Just beware of buying an M9 or MM that still has the original sensor!

My 3 cameras, M9, M9P & MM all developed sensor corrosion in early 2015. The 3 sensors were replaced by Leica for no charge in April 2015, before the the new sensor was developed. I sold the M9P immediately thereafter and kept the M9 & MM.

Fast forward to July 2019 both my M9 & MM have again developed sensor corrosion. I'm presently engaged in some arm wrestling with Leica who want to charge me €1, 560- incl. VAT x2 = €3, 160-  to replace the sensors on the 2 cameras. I find this unacceptable.

Alternatively they offer what they call an "attractive upgrade option" to either an M10, M246, SL etc.  This still means that either way the customer has to fork out  over €3, 000-,  granted you get a new camera, but what if as in my case I don't need 2 more cameras? They take your old camera, refurbish it and then resell it.  See:  Refurbished M9 & M9P For Sale       

I then politely enquired if in terms of their "attractive upgrade option" I could trade my 2 cameras in for 1 camera (an MM2) seeing that I already have an M10, an SL and a CL, plus film MP, M6, M4, M3, not to mention a collection of antique Leica cameras dating back to 1932, and therefore don't really need 2 more cameras.

Their reply was contained in a curt 1 line email : "This is not possible."  That's it, no Dear Sir, no Kind regards, nothing just a 1 liner.

 Leica's attitude is pay the money, take it or leave it! 

I've now taken the discussion higher up the chain of command at Leica, let's see where this ends.......

In Australia, I don’t think consumer protection laws would let Leica off the hook for a camera bought here.  They replaced a known faulty component with the same faulty component and then want you to pay to replace it with the component without the fault.  

 

Having daid that, mine was promptly replaced within the offered sensor replacement period with no hassles.  I sent mine to be checked even though I couldn’t see any corrosion. On close inspection corrosion was found and the sensor replaced with the new one.

[michali]

Duplicate post. Please see below.

Edited August 19, 2019 by michali

[michali]

4 hours ago, MarkP said:

In Australia, I don’t think consumer protection laws would let Leica off the hook for a camera bought here.  They replaced a known faulty component with the same faulty component and then want you to pay to replace it with the component without the fault.  

 

Having daid that, mine was promptly replaced within the offered sensor replacement period with no hassles.  I sent mine to be checked even though I couldn’t see any corrosion. On close inspection corrosion was found and the sensor replaced with the new one.

Thanks for the feedback Mark, appreciated. I suspect that given consumer protection laws in Europe, they may not be able to get away with it in Europe either. I'm not about to give up on what I believe is unfair treatment of Leica's loyal customers. Let's see where this goes.

[analog-digital]

Am 19.7.2019 um 21:04 schrieb Double_A:

I have the opportunity to purchase a used Monochrom 1st version with the original sensor for about $2200. I read a lot of these cameras suffered from the corrosion issue and when that happens, it would cost me about  $1550 to replace the sensor (it is just passed the 5 year guarantee). And in the case of a sensor replacement I end up close to the price at which I could buy a used copy of the newer 246 / 2nd version. 

What would be your advice? Pull the trigger and take the risk? Or look further for a copy with a replaced sensor? 

According to Leica, the old sensor will most likely corrode. Sooner or later. An exchange of the sensor is a total economic loss. Seen from there, buy only one with a changed sensor.

 

Daniel

Edited August 20, 2019 by analog-digital

[analog-digital]

Am 19.7.2019 um 21:13 schrieb jaapv:

Personally I prefer the MM1 over the MM2.

Can you describe that to me more exactly?

Daniel

[fotografr]

On 8/20/2019 at 11:25 AM, analog-digital said:

Can you describe that to me more exactly?

Daniel

I'll venture a guess that what Jaap meant was that the MM1 sensor produces images that have a more film like appearance than the CMOS sensor in the MM2.  There's a lengthy scientific explanation for this but it's quite boring to most people so I'm not going to dive into it here. A quick Google for "CCD vs CMOS" will give you more information.