Double_A Posted July 19, 2019 Share #1 Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I have the opportunity to purchase a used Monochrom 1st version with the original sensor for about $2200. I read a lot of these cameras suffered from the corrosion issue and when that happens, it would cost me about $1550 to replace the sensor (it is just passed the 5 year guarantee). And in the case of a sensor replacement I end up close to the price at which I could buy a used copy of the newer 246 / 2nd version. What would be your advice? Pull the trigger and take the risk? Or look further for a copy with a replaced sensor? Edited July 19, 2019 by Double_A Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 19, 2019 Posted July 19, 2019 Hi Double_A, Take a look here Used Monochrom with original sensor. Should I buy it?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 19, 2019 Share #2 Posted July 19, 2019 Personally I prefer the MM1 over the MM2. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double_A Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted July 19, 2019 And would you buy one with the original sensor? What would be the chance that I run into the corrosion issue with the sensor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibramr Posted July 20, 2019 Share #4 Posted July 20, 2019 Greetings. Perhaps we should treat the MM9 vs. M246 question differently than whether to buy an MM9 with the risk of seeing the cost of corrosion in the foreseeable future, or not. But to answer your question, I would not touch an M9 or an M9M without a replaced sensor, or with the cost of replacement and wait time are clearly factored in the price. Perhaps it is better to continue looking for a better sample as I do not feel that the quoted price of $2200 adequately reflects the very likely cost of sensor replacement. With both MM9 and M246 at hand, I still find choosing between them difficult, complex, and interesting. However, this is a different discussion. Enjoy in good health. 1 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted July 20, 2019 Share #5 Posted July 20, 2019 No I would not buy one without the sensor having been already replaced with the latest version sensor for the M9M. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted July 20, 2019 Share #6 Posted July 20, 2019 Monochrom CCD is fantastic and if I hadn't use one for years, I wouldn't know that it's fantastic. The M246 that I use for some months is another "miracle of new Monochrom technology", in use it's more modern and files are also more modern ( "less filmic" or something else). If I must buy one Monochrom now, I'd go for the newer M246 not to have to worry about the sensor cost (or not in future). With sh buy about half of new price, M246 is kind of bargain (expensive but "better buy" than the first version of about same price when including the futur sensor replacement cost if required ). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceVentura1986 Posted July 20, 2019 Share #7 Posted July 20, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) My M9M is my most used camera, without question. I was “lucky” enough that it started to show signs of corrosion just before the cut-off for the free replacement program. That said, it was gone for SIX MONTHS! I eventually got it back and it’s worked flawlessly since. I would certainly consider one BUT ONLY if you’ve factored the cost and time of repair into your purchase price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted July 20, 2019 Share #8 Posted July 20, 2019 Both my M9 and MM1 experienced the corrosion issue and received new sensors under warranty. I've always thought the biggest losers in the sensor debacle were those owners whose sensors did not experience the issue. Leica says most sensors will not experience the problem and I have not seen anything to contradict that. But that means most owners will experience low resale/trade in values since buyers will assume a new sensor will be required eventually. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter_S Posted July 20, 2019 Share #9 Posted July 20, 2019 Well, depending on the price, you can buy it, send it to Leica, get the sensor-upgrade done (if still possible) - I think it will cost you 1500 EUR, but you get a full service and warranty with it, and the price could still be below the asking price of one with a replaced sensor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted July 20, 2019 Share #10 Posted July 20, 2019 I would not purchase a MMv1 or any M9 variant that has not had the sensor replaced. I had a MMv1 with sensor corrosion, and my sensor was replaced in 1 month. Sadly I decided to sell the MMv1 after that, which in retrospect I know regret, as it is difficult to find a mint MMv1 with a sensor replacement on the market these days. Bear in mind that the sensor replacement costs almost what an MMv1 costs on the used market these days. In that regard I would probably choose to buy a MMv2 instead, as they tend to sell on the used market for not much more than the MMv1, and it is a much more refined camera (shutter doesnt lock up, shutter sound, 2m rangefinder, more reliable rangefinder, weather resistance, battery life, and more). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted July 21, 2019 Share #11 Posted July 21, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 3:04 PM, Double_A said: I have the opportunity to purchase a used Monochrom 1st version with the original sensor for about $2200. I read a lot of these cameras suffered from the corrosion issue and when that happens, it would cost me about $1550 to replace the sensor (it is just passed the 5 year guarantee). And in the case of a sensor replacement I end up close to the price at which I could buy a used copy of the newer 246 / 2nd version. What would be your advice? Pull the trigger and take the risk? Or look further for a copy with a replaced sensor? Leica store SOHO has a MM1 with the sensor replaced. it is a little more price wise then the one you are looking at but has a 1 year warranty (certified camera). I'm sure they would negotiate a little on the price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wimdev Posted July 21, 2019 Share #12 Posted July 21, 2019 I bought my MM1 with original sensor a few months ago for $1850. After I cleaned the sensor properly, it turns out to be flawless. I've been enjoying the camera very much, and its output is fantastic. At the moment, there is no need to send the camera in for a sensor replacement. If and when the time comes, I'll decide whether to take the plunge. For now, I'll just use it as much as I can. I figure that after 7 years with the sensor still as good as new, it won't suddenly fail on me in a catastrophic way - I'm pretty comfortable with those odds. Anyway, I'd make sure before you buy an MM1 for $2200 that the sensor isn't affected. If it isn't, and you can talk the price down a bit, I think it's a good proposition. Even with a possible future outlay of $1550, it'll still be close to what you'd have to pay for an upgraded MM1, but at least you've got to use it in the meantime. Wim 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 21, 2019 Share #13 Posted July 21, 2019 10 hours ago, dkmoore said: Leica store SOHO has a MM1 with the sensor replaced. it is a little more price wise then the one you are looking at but has a 1 year warranty (certified camera). I'm sure they would negotiate a little on the price. Unless they sold some, they recently had several. Leica Miami also fairly regularly sells used MM1s, always with new sensor. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted July 21, 2019 Share #14 Posted July 21, 2019 12 minutes ago, Jeff S said: Unless they sold some, they recently had several. Leica Miami also fairly regularly sells used MM1s, always with new sensor. Jeff only 1 had the new sensor. The others had the old sensor (at Leica SOHO). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 21, 2019 Share #15 Posted July 21, 2019 Unless the sensor has been replaced it should be very cheap. If the sensor has been replaced you need to be certain that it was replaced with the modified sensor as Leica initially replaced defective sensors with new sensors of the same type which may also develop corrosion. Bit of a mine field. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 21, 2019 Share #16 Posted July 21, 2019 30 minutes ago, earleygallery said: Unless the sensor has been replaced it should be very cheap. If the sensor has been replaced you need to be certain that it was replaced with the modified sensor as Leica initially replaced defective sensors with new sensors of the same type which may also develop corrosion. Bit of a mine field. Reputable dealers like Leica Miami will not sell an M9 based camera without the correct new sensor. And with store warranty at a minimum. My MM1 came from them, but only after they first sent it to Germany (at their expense) for new sensor and full service. All paperwork included. No mine field needed. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverchrome Posted July 23, 2019 Share #17 Posted July 23, 2019 I would buy an M9 with a corroded sensor, and I would buy an M9 with a new sensor, but I would NOT buy one with an original sensor that is now showing any signs of corrosion, unless it was very, very, very cheap. Leica will only replace sensors once they exhibit corrosion. By the time your sensor corrodes, Leica might no longer offer the sensor replacement service or the cost of the service might be so high that it is not economically viable to proceed. In case, you don't know, Leica increased the cost of the sensor replacement service at the end of last year. It was not an insignificant amount either, something along the lines of 300 Euros. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.noctilux Posted July 23, 2019 Share #18 Posted July 23, 2019 M9 very cheap with corroded sensor ... some months ago, in France it (not mine) was sold quickly 600€ , but this is not Monochrom as this thread is talking about. Anyway the sensor replacement must be about the same for M9 family. For 600€ plus sensor cost, M9 can be good price but, I think not the case with Monochrom (which in sh France's price 3,000 - 3,500€ ). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddesbiens Posted July 24, 2019 Share #19 Posted July 24, 2019 I bought one with original sensor 2.5 years ago. Still going strong after a total of 2 owners over 5 + years. i checked it out after I bought it and saw no signs of the corrosion. I check it every 4 to 6 months and still no signs of it. I have been a semiconductor professional in the device physics, process development, and test fields for over 39 years with a graduate education in solid state physics. I believe the corrosion issue in this camera is kind of overblown in these forums, you only hear from the owners that have the problem and given the materials used in these sensor arrays, if the films did not have either pinholes in the passivation coatings or in-situ corrosive precursors in the stack due to contaminated processing (latent defects) which can and do occur, then they should be good for 20+ years (commercial semiconductor lifetime times 2). These guys did not fool around with the base technologies- they are inherently stable if they have no inherent defects and as long as you don’t subject the sensor to repeated -50C to + 150 C ( far outside the specified operational temp temp ranges) you at probably ok. Drastic temperature cycling over a number of cycles can induce some voids in the integrity of the passivation materials which can lead to corrosion in time. I would buy buy it on the contingent that you run a typical image test with a cleaned sensor, and if you do not see the sensor corrosion artifacts- just shoot with it and enjoy it as much as I have. If it does develop corrosion eventually, just get it replaced. I think ON semiconductor bought the Kodak sensor businesses a while back and Leica is either getting their replacements from there or an alternate supplier, I can pretty much guarantee that there is no real difference in the manufacturing process between the original sensors and the replacements, they are probably siding the same litho masks even. They may be using a different part number to satisfy Leica’s purchasing requirements so that factory stock cannot get mixed. They may have replaced the passivation equipment in the factory that was contributing to the rather abnormal defect density in the affected films, that’s all- but if you have an original sensor that was processed say, right after a equipment maintenance cycle it is probably as good as the replacements- I know mine is. The whole thing is built like a Panzer tank. enjoy it and stop worrying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted July 25, 2019 Share #20 Posted July 25, 2019 ...currently there are three MM1 on willhaben.at for sale with changed sensors, just to inform you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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