leica dream Posted July 18, 2019 Share #1 Posted July 18, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am having real problems printing my images. Capture is on my Leica C and printing is on Epson WF3010 to Epson paper. I use IMAC and calibrate my screen using Colormunki Display. Neither the standard Epson software nor Epson Easy Photo Print render accurate images - usually far too dark. Is there a more reliable print software I should be using? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Steve Ash Posted July 18, 2019 Share #2 Posted July 18, 2019 https://dinax.com/mirage-2/?lang=en is working fine for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sahe69 Posted July 18, 2019 Share #3 Posted July 18, 2019 You might just have your screen brightness set too high, if the colors are otherwise all right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2019 Share #4 Posted July 18, 2019 Images are often too dark when printed, for the simple reason that screens are illuminated and paper is not. The general advice is to use a " screen" layer and judge empirically how much to lighten. The software depends on the printer. I use Photoshop and the only RIP that is available for MAC for my Epson XP-15000 (as least that I could find) is Easyprint, limited as it is. And set your screen luminance to 120 https://www.xrite.com/blog/luminance-and-brightness-what-is-the-difference Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 18, 2019 Share #5 Posted July 18, 2019 Lower the screen brightness until it matches the print then brighten the image to how you want it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 18, 2019 Share #6 Posted July 18, 2019 As others note, print darkness is a common issue. A search will bring up myriad discussions, with screen brightness as a common culprit (often set too high as default, and for reasons Jaap mentioned). I print to match my final print display lighting conditions, using a disciplined workflow, which incorporates ImagePrint software. IP provides profiles for most all papers, along with lighting display options, and operates in a constant soft proofing mode. It overrides my Epson print driver. A print viewing station can further assist for critical work, but I manage without. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 19, 2019 Share #7 Posted July 19, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I guess the OP is using a Retina display as well. Even calibrated, those tend to be on the bright and "poppy" side for photo editing for print. One needs to remember that an image that is prepared optimally for print wil not look particularly pretty on the screen. Calculating the halo width may make it look oversharpened, it will look too bright, the contrast and colours may not be what you would display on the web. You will have to do test prints before loading your big sheet of paper for the final print, unless you are very experienced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 19, 2019 Share #8 Posted July 19, 2019 (edited) I have never made a final (framed for display) print without first making work prints, film or digital. And even then, one must account for ‘dimming’ effects of the chosen cover glass in relation to display lighting. It has never been simple, and practice/experience is key... as with all other aspects of photography. Jeff Edited July 19, 2019 by Jeff S 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marchyman Posted July 20, 2019 Share #9 Posted July 20, 2019 Screen brightness is usually set/checked by the calibration software. At least it is using the i1 Display. Perhaps the colormunki is different. Lowering the target from the "standard" 120 cd/m to 90ish might help. Also, soft proofing can sometimes help you get a better idea of what a print will look like before printing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 20, 2019 Share #10 Posted July 20, 2019 My SpectraView calibration software is built into my NEC screen, and provides for customized settings for screen brightness, contrast ratio, etc. Room lighting conditions can affect perceived viewing, but 85 cd per square meter generally suffices. It helps too that IP is in full time soft proof mode. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica dream Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share #11 Posted July 21, 2019 Thank you everyone. What baffles me is that the problem has appeared only in the past few months. Whatever I try seems to make no difference whatsoever. I have recalibrated the screen and reloaded the printer profile I had done for the paper I use. That all worked fine until now. Very frustrating that I am getting through so much ink and paper to get nowhere. When I calibrated the screen last time the system told me to reduce luminance to 80 otherwise it would use its own calculations. I can find how to adjust brightness for the screen but not luminance. I have even tried several other profiles available on the iMAC. I note that Marchyman uses iDisplay for calibration which I gather is a more upmarket version of Colormunki both are produced by X-Rite. I realise that my Epson WF3010 is not a "photo printer" per say, but it has been fine for a couple of years. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted July 21, 2019 Share #12 Posted July 21, 2019 I have two questions: do the printer manufacturers make their own paper?, do the printer manufacturers make their own ink? My Value-Added Canon iPF dealer told me that none of the three printer manufacturers make their own paper. He recommends that I buy paper from known paper makers such as Mitsubishi/Pictorico and Hahnemuhle simply because printer manufacturer paper changes over time without warning. And thus profiles from any source will not remain correct. The profile vendors don't know of the change either. That begs the question of where the ink comes from. I happily owned a Canon Pixma Pro 9000 Mark II dye ink printer for several years until my prints started becoming too yellow. Only three things could have changed: the paper, the ink, or perhaps erosion in the printer heads changing the ink laydown. I gave away the dye ink printer and bought a Canon iPF 1000 pigment ink printer. (One of the reasons being that the iPF printers use the Canon Print Studio plug-in to Photoshop.) With the Value-Added Canon dealer's installation and instruction I now get nearly perfect prints on the first try. The only adjustments I routinely make are to highlights (blown out) and shadows (blocked). I tend to be too contrasty in my adjustments. I don't have a prints too dark problem at all. For reference I use a MacPro (late 2013), Mojave OS (latest version), Photoshope CC (latest release), Eizo CX271 with hood (bought from and installed by the same Value-Added dealer after adjusting my workspace lighting to his recommendation), and Eizo EX3 spectrometer (rebranded Datacolor Spyder) with Eizo Color Navigator 7 software for calibration. I typically print on Pictorico White Film and Hahnemuhle Photo Rag. I use custom profiles made by the Canon Value-Added dealer. I apply the profile upstream (Edit/Convert to Profile in Photoshop) and "No Color Correction" under Color Management/Color Mode in Print Studio. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica dream Posted July 21, 2019 Author Share #13 Posted July 21, 2019 Interesting facts there, especially as I use only genuine Epson inks on genuine Epson paper in an Epson printer. Some of your factors could be the cause of my results suddenly deteriorating. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 21, 2019 Share #14 Posted July 21, 2019 This speaks to some of the reasons I like ImagePrint, e.g., up to date profiles as well as no need to adjust printer settings (the IP driver sets everything optimally once paper/profile is entered). As important, it runs outside the Epson/Apple chain, whereby changes can be introduced without notice. I remember years ago when Apple screwed up color management settings (wouldn’t turn off despite contrary indications). IP bypasses all that mess and eliminates hunting for errors, by user and/or company. For me it’s worth the significant expense. Likewise, one shouldn’t skimp on printer hardware, inks, papers, software, etc if consistent print quality is valued. I get far more bang for the buck on the back end of the shooting and print workflow than on front end gear. Jeff 2 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted July 21, 2019 Share #15 Posted July 21, 2019 (edited) I couldn’t believe how expensive ImagePrint was and that it would be worth the price a year or so ago. And my prints were systemtically too dark. Since I use IP however this problem hardly exists anymore. I have a Retina screen on my iMac and print on an Epson800. Of course there’s a difference between screen and paper but this is a factor which a fraction of the problem: the reality is that IP really eliminates all EPSON’s interventions to the printer and that most other printing programs do not, at least not completely, resulting in too dark prints. IP gives a reasonable estimate of the result on paper in its program, so you know what to do if you’re not satisfied yet. In most cases I’m done in one run and hardly need testprints anymore. IP has become a bit cheaper also last year. Edited July 21, 2019 by otto.f 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted July 21, 2019 Share #16 Posted July 21, 2019 Epson's Exhibition Fiber is a fabulous paper. One would think they control production of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted July 22, 2019 Share #17 Posted July 22, 2019 For printing I have my Eizo CG display set to 80cd which gives a pretty accurate impression of what the print will look like. I have my ancient Apple Cinema Disply HD calibrated by an old Spyder 4 set the same way and get good results too. Brighter will result in a bigger mismatch with the print. It's all individual of course and depends on lots of factors as noted above. It's pretty easy to set up several profiles so one can have one for image editing for web or computer display and one for printing etc. Here is a link that helped me at one point, fwiw. https://imagescience.com.au/knowledge/why-your-prints-are-too-dark Best Philip Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 22, 2019 Share #18 Posted July 22, 2019 On 7/21/2019 at 8:56 PM, otto.f said: I couldn’t believe how expensive ImagePrint was and that it would be worth the price a year or so ago. And my prints were systemtically too dark. Since I use IP however this problem hardly exists anymore. I have a Retina screen on my iMac and print on an Epson800. Of course there’s a difference between screen and paper but this is a factor which a fraction of the problem: the reality is that IP really eliminates all EPSON’s interventions to the printer and that most other printing programs do not, at least not completely, resulting in too dark prints. IP gives a reasonable estimate of the result on paper in its program, so you know what to do if you’re not satisfied yet. In most cases I’m done in one run and hardly need testprints anymore. IP has become a bit cheaper also last year. Plus 1 agree 100% Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leica dream Posted July 23, 2019 Author Share #19 Posted July 23, 2019 I have contacted them and yes $399 is a lot of money..............but if it solves my problem? It is in the context of Leica captured images after all. Even so, as a pensioner I shall think carefully. I have looked at some "Youtubes" about it and have a route to a trial version. At least having my problem existing already it will be a good test to see if anything changes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 23, 2019 Share #20 Posted July 23, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, leica dream said: I have contacted them and yes $399 is a lot of money..............but if it solves my problem? It is in the context of Leica captured images after all. Even so, as a pensioner I shall think carefully. I have looked at some "Youtubes" about it and have a route to a trial version. At least having my problem existing already it will be a good test to see if anything changes. I recommend that you choose IP Black, not RED, to get full functionality and profiles, etc. Costs more, but well worth it IMO. RED still works with Epson driver, defeating one of the key advantages of the software. Jeff Edited July 23, 2019 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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