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Dave in Wales

Leica APO-MACRO-ELMARIT-TL 60mm f/2.8 or.........

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28 minutes ago, Rosebud55 said:

The xt3 and 80 mm lens is a much bigger combination than the CL with the apo elmarit 60mm. The apo elmarit is a fantastic lens.

 

rosie

I Leica it :)

 

Edited by Dave in Wales

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I love my tl60 macro.  Very light with fantastic capability.  Plus, it is the longest reaching prime made by Leica in Germany for the CL.  The Fuji system is great but then you end up carrying two cameras everywhere.  Bleh.  

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1 hour ago, SugarBubble said:

I love my tl60 macro.  Very light with fantastic capability.  Plus, it is the longest reaching prime made by Leica in Germany for the CL.  The Fuji system is great but then you end up carrying two cameras everywhere.  Bleh.  

Please may I ask a favour. The focusing distance is published by Leica as 'Focusing range 0.16m to infinity' could I please ask what is the 'working distance' ie. 'end of the hood' to the object at 1:1 and 1:2.

I have made no decision as yet, the 60mm TL is still under consideration. 

TIA

Dave

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1 hour ago, Dave in Wales said:

Please may I ask a favour. The focusing distance is published by Leica as 'Focusing range 0.16m to infinity' could I please ask what is the 'working distance' ie. 'end of the hood' to the object at 1:1 and 1:2.

The TL60 is an internal focusing lens so its length does not change regardless of focus distance: It's about 4.5" long from the flange interface to the end of the hood. 

I don't have one of those, but I have the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm. Set up for 1:2 magnification, it nets a 4.75" working distance and is 4.75" long. So at 1:2, I estimate the TL60 gives you 5" working distance. Set up for 1:1 magnification with the matched extension tube, the MER60 nets 2.5" working distance and is 5.975" long. So at 1:1, I estimate the TL60 gives you 3.875" working distance (a bit more than 1.25" additional working distance). 

Here's the CL + mount adapters + Macro-Adapter-R + Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm set for 1:1 capture: 

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2 hours ago, ramarren said:

The TL60 is an internal focusing lens so its length does not change regardless of focus distance: It's about 4.5" long from the flange interface to the end of the hood. 

I don't have one of those, but I have the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm. Set up for 1:2 magnification, it nets a 4.75" working distance and is 4.75" long. So at 1:2, I estimate the TL60 gives you 5" working distance. Set up for 1:1 magnification with the matched extension tube, the MER60 nets 2.5" working distance and is 5.975" long. So at 1:1, I estimate the TL60 gives you 3.875" working distance (a bit more than 1.25" additional working distance). 

Here's the CL + mount adapters + Macro-Adapter-R + Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm set for 1:1 capture: 

Thank you for your trouble, so how does Leica's 0.16m fit in then.

Not wishing to appear ungrateful but I'd prefer the working distances from an actual TL60mm attached to a CL.

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41 minutes ago, Dave in Wales said:

Thank you for your trouble, so how does Leica's 0.16m fit in then.

Not wishing to appear ungrateful but I'd prefer the working distances from an actual TL60mm attached to a CL.

No trouble: the camera and lens and extension tubes were sitting on my desk since I used them yesterday... It was an approximation, since a 60mm lens at 1:1 and 1:2 magnification is going to image at the exact same distance from the subject (sensor plane to subject) regardless of whether it's a TL or an R lens. The markings on the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm focusing ring are very accurate... 

I chose the edge of the lens flange for my camera to subject measurement reference point since the CL does not have a sensor plane indicating mark on it. The sensor should be 19mm deep into the body from that point, so the sensor to subject distances are a little greater than what I posted. The APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60mm might focus slightly past 1:1, or might experience some focal length variability at the close limits since it is an internal focusing lens and the change in position of the elements may have the side effect of changing the focal length slightly and thereby change the imaging distance as well. But it's going to be in the ballpark of what I posted. Far as I'm concerned, a half an inch one way or the other with respect to working distance really doesn't make much of a difference...

Of course it would be great if someone else could measure these things using that specific lens. It's made a little more difficult since there aren't markings on the focusing ring to set magnification ... You have to put a ruler in front of the camera and move the camera with respect to the ruler until you get 1:2 and 1:1 magnifications. But someone else has to step up to the plate and offer their observations since I don't own that lens... :)

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The Elmarit 60mm macro R is one of the Leica lenses one should own and never sell. It may be a bit softer than the APO Macro Elmarit 100 R, but much handier, so you’ll carry and  use it more often. The Fuji camera is a ship that passes in the night,  you will definitely sell it again, the question is only how soon. 

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I agree with otto. I cannot compare the 60er with the Leica R but with the Canon FD 100 macro or the Olympus for mft.. The greatest value in my opinion is the 1:1 in one lens as well as the possibility to use it often freehanded!. Most of the other macro lenses are reaching only 1:2 without the extra tube. So I use the 60 Macro at my T as well as the TL2 as one of the standard lenses (in former times I used a 80 to 85 lens) common with the 23 T-summicron.

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17 hours ago, ramarren said:

No trouble: the camera and lens and extension tubes were sitting on my desk since I used them yesterday... It was an approximation, since a 60mm lens at 1:1 and 1:2 magnification is going to image at the exact same distance from the subject (sensor plane to subject) regardless of whether it's a TL or an R lens. The markings on the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm focusing ring are very accurate... 

I chose the edge of the lens flange for my camera to subject measurement reference point since the CL does not have a sensor plane indicating mark on it. The sensor should be 19mm deep into the body from that point, so the sensor to subject distances are a little greater than what I posted. The APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60mm might focus slightly past 1:1, or might experience some focal length variability at the close limits since it is an internal focusing lens and the change in position of the elements may have the side effect of changing the focal length slightly and thereby change the imaging distance as well. But it's going to be in the ballpark of what I posted. Far as I'm concerned, a half an inch one way or the other with respect to working distance really doesn't make much of a difference...

Of course it would be great if someone else could measure these things using that specific lens. It's made a little more difficult since there aren't markings on the focusing ring to set magnification ... You have to put a ruler in front of the camera and move the camera with respect to the ruler until you get 1:2 and 1:1 magnifications. But someone else has to step up to the plate and offer their observations since I don't own that lens... :)

Thank you once again.

This is what B&H have to say about it.......

As we have come to expect from a Leica lens, this 60mm macro is designed for excellent optical performance. It incorporates four aspherical elements in its 10-element, 9-group design to minimize aberrations. Also, its relatively fast f/2.8 maximum aperture makes it useful in low light and in creating images with shallow depth of field. In order to achieve its 1:1 magnification, the lens is designed to focus as close as 6.3", with a working distance of just 2.4". Also, it boasts smooth and precise focusing with full-time manual override. Internal focusing further assists macro shooters by ensuring the overall length of the lens does not change during use.

2.4" working distance is pretty darn close, sure to frighten the the wild life :)

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4 hours ago, Dave in Wales said:

Thank you once again.

This is what B&H have to say about it.......

As we have come to expect from a Leica lens, this 60mm macro is designed for excellent optical performance. It incorporates four aspherical elements in its 10-element, 9-group design to minimize aberrations. Also, its relatively fast f/2.8 maximum aperture makes it useful in low light and in creating images with shallow depth of field. In order to achieve its 1:1 magnification, the lens is designed to focus as close as 6.3", with a working distance of just 2.4". Also, it boasts smooth and precise focusing with full-time manual override. Internal focusing further assists macro shooters by ensuring the overall length of the lens does not change during use.

2.4" working distance is pretty darn close, sure to frighten the the wild life :)

So my estimate was pretty close .. It's actually very similar to the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm with Macro-Adapter-R extension tube at 1:1 with respect to working distance if not overall length of the objective. :D

I'm not a wildlife macro shooter, but if I were going to do something like that I'd want a 100 to 200mm macro capability. 60mm is too short to obtain best perspective on three dimensional objects at 1:2 to 1:1 magnification. When I'm doing three dimensional objects, I'd pick a longer focal length lens: 

Leica CL + Elmarit-R 135mm + 2x Extender-R
ISO 800 @ f/4 @ 1/4

Effective focal length is 270mm, eqFOV on FF format is 400mm. The subject in this case was 100mm long and working distance was about 1.5-2m. Smaller subject, closer to insect size: 

Leica M-P + Micro-Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 AI-S
1:2 magnification, cropped

Subject here was about 6mm across the petals, working distance about 100-120 mm. 

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The TL 60 is an excellent and light lens - perfect to use without a tripod. The only disadvantage for some of my purposes is the focal length - I would like a longer focal length 150 mm or even more. Yes,  I have the possibility to switch to my SL and apply my Canon 180 mm with the Novoflex adapter, but that combination does not work together with the CL and the new Sigma adapter MC 21 for Canon EF to L does not work either with the  CL nor with the SL - only with the Panasonics. This is a real shame in the light of the L Alliance. And it seems it is not an error by Sigma, which have told originally that the converter will work with the Leicas too - it seens that is clearly a Leica intention that this converter should not work with the Leicas. The answer by Leica is, that adapters are not included in the L Aliance agreement. Could be, that there a contracts with other manufacturers of adapters - I do not know. But on the other hand Novoflex has clearly stated, the will  not make a suitable adapter for Canon EF lenses for the CL/ TL2 because of commercial reasons (to low quantities) und the existing adapter for the SL cannot be modified to work with the CL too. Altogether  a shame and a very unsatisfying situation. Regarding Sigma there will be a 70 mm macro in near future for the CL and the SL but with some disadvantages against the L Macro. And I  heard nothing regarding the very good but old Sigma Macro 150 mm for the L - it does not exist either for the Sony. I would buy it immediately if it would be available for the CL.

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