Show us your APO-Summicron-M 50mm f/2 ASPH shots wide open

[Michael Hiles]

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Thanks for the note. I take this to mean that the old rigid or DR (correctly focused at f2.0), when pointed at a flat wall of (lets say) bricks will have a fall off of sharpness away from the center of the field, whereas the APO will not (or at least the sharpness fall off will be noticeably less). Is that roughly right?

[Jul]

I don't shoot walls but you could see it that way. I would rather say that the rigid or DR reminds me more of human vision. What you look at is perfectly clear and the peripheral vision much less so. The APO would be a crop displaying just what you are looking at without the progressive blur of the peripheral vision.

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[Peter Kilmister]

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[Michael Hiles]

18 minutes ago, Jul said:

I don't shoot walls but you could see it that way. I would rather say that the rigid or DR reminds me more of human vision. What you look at is perfectly clear and the peripheral vision much less so. The APO would be a crop displaying just what you are looking at without the progressive blur of the peripheral vision.

To defend my honour, I do not shoot walls either. Which is one reason I am not rushing out to drop $9,000 CAD. Good analogy to human vision.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Michael Hiles

[JCR33]

M10P + 50 APO @2.0 

 

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[benqui]

vor 7 Stunden schrieb Michael Hiles:

Would any of the photos here look any different had they been made with any summicron made since 1955? And if YES, what should I notice.

I know what you mean Michael and I can not answer your question. To me it is a decision only on a gut level, the APO is the perfect companion for my kind of photography. But there are for sure plenty more fish in the sea if you have a look at the huge amount of Leica 50mm lenses

Edited July 22, 2019 by benqui

[Peter Kilmister]

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Sister of the earlier Border Collie photo, also taken with M10-p + 50 APO:

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[Milan_S]

In the fields
M10 with 50 APO 

 

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[Milan_S]

Leica m246 w/ 50 APO Summicron f2

 

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[Metin Colak]

The images of this lens are so hyper-real, meaning they are mere recordings, transparency of actual reality in which we live, and  the reflection of our current world perception in the end. The optics of this lens entraps you as an artist; it does not give you much options, possible world(s) visions. It seems rather difficult to produce artisticly beautiful images without doing alteration(s) in the post. 

However, art is more than mere recording  of reality; essence of art lies rather on the concept, transcendence. You cant get over reality with this type of lens, but you are engulfed by it. This is the point  where Walter Mandler lens design shines, and gives you options to produce imperfect images, full of distortion, colour fringes, focus shifts, etc, etc,  but in the end that taste, that art taste difficult to measure using calculations, mathematics, optic formulae...

If one is the 'slave' of  reality, the other is the 'master' of it..

Edited August 15, 2019 by Metin Colak

[Chaemono]

I see, Metin. Your point is, the APO 50 Summicron is so perfect, it's difficult to transcend reality with it. Whereas "that art taste" is inherent in a lens "that gives you options to produce imperfect images, full of distortion, colour fringes, focus shifts, etc, etc,.." I cannot help thinking that Sony users should be the best artists then. 🤣

[Metin Colak]

7 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I see, Metin. Your point is, the APO 50 Summicron is so perfect, it's difficult to transcend reality with it. Whereas "that art taste" is inherent in a lens "that gives you options to produce imperfect images, full of distortion, colour fringes, focus shifts, etc, etc,.." I cannot help thinking that Sony users should be the best artists then. 🤣

I can't remember any original Sony lens design, maybe I should not have limited my thesis to Walter Mandler,  Ludwig Bertele and other genious lens designers should also have been considered. I was in the Leica camp, that's why I mentioned Walter Mandler. But in the end, according to my observations, Mandler's type is the the apex of the this (previous) generation lens design.

This kind of lenses give you an opportunity to create a different kind of reality; a reality which exceeds its limits. The too 'perfect' Apo squeezes you into the appearance, corporeality, but the less perfect Noctilux f1 for instance, pushes you to discover your limits as an artist using trigger as a stroke.

If one is the 'recorder', the other one is the 'artist'... The first one shows, the latter re-constructs!

[Chaemono]

You put so well in words how others feel and you capture the essence of what most Leica users strive for. In the Leica world these days, a lot of pseudo artists create images primarily with vignetting and swirly bokeh in mind. At least there is potential for them to reach a superior state, I think. But once these users get their hands on the APO, all hope is lost.

 

[evikne]

With a Noctilux f/1 you can take a picture of a fire hydrant and it can look like art. If you take the same picture with a 50 APO Summicron the picture will just look like … a fire hydrant. 😄

Of course it's also possible to make art with an APO-lens, but it requires more creativity. With a Noctilux you get a lot for free.

[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, Metin Colak said:

I can't remember any original Sony lens design, maybe I should not have limited my thesis to Walter Mandler,  Ludwig Bertele and other genious lens designers should also have been considered. I was in the Leica camp, that's why I mentioned Walter Mandler. But in the end, according to my observations, Mandler's type is the the apex of the this (previous) generation lens design.

This kind of lenses give you an opportunity to create a different kind of reality; a reality which exceeds its limits. The too 'perfect' Apo squeezes you into the appearance, corporeality, but the less perfect Noctilux f1 for instance, pushes you to discover your limits as an artist using trigger as a stroke.

If one is the 'recorder', the other one is the 'artist'... The first one shows, the latter re-constructs!

This is such a "I used to walk to school with no shoes up hill in the snow" type of comment. 

20 years from now there will be people talking about Peter Karbe's designs that had so much character, aberrations, imperfect color, big lenses, etc..

For the record you can make art just as easily with a Karbe 50 APO as you can with a Mandler 50 Cron. 

[Peter Kilmister]

I can show you 50mm APO Summicron shots at wider than f/2 that really demonstrate the power of the lens. It is not like the Noctilux which everyone who buys one seems to shoot at f/0.95 for some reason even if their photos are very often completely out of focus. The 50mm APO Summicron takes great photos at any aperture. How many of the great photographers  in the early days of photography used wide open apertures? How many Spitfire reconnaissance aircraft using stereo pictures used wide open apertures? I really fail to see the point.

[jdlaing]

Depends on how many megapixels the Spitfire had.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Peter Kilmister said:

I can show you 50mm APO Summicron shots at wider than f/2 that really demonstrate the power of the lens. 

That would be quite an accomplishment, a Summicron faster than f2. Please show.

Jeff

[indergaard]

Just because it looks different than reality, doesn't make it a piece of art.
In fact, the Noctilux look is more of a cliche than art. Just take a look at any real successful piece of art, and you will quickly notice that none of the art looks like a Noctilux shot of a fire hydrant.

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[evikne]

1 hour ago, indergaard said:

Just because it looks different than reality, doesn't make it a piece of art.

I was waiting for that answer, because I agree and think it's true. That's why I said "look like art" and not "becomes art". To make real art, one must have full control over all aspects of the work.

But different brushes for different purposes. We can also turn around my statement and say: "It's also possible to make art with a Noctilux, but one must know the tool and take into account its peculiarities."

Edited August 16, 2019 by evikne