Steve Huff on M glass with Nikon Z7

[Photon42]

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On 8/1/2019 at 12:33 AM, Jeff S said:

I played with the Z7 at a local dealer today and, as someone who has not liked any EVF to date (including on the SL), I must say that the Z7 EVF seemed the most natural of any I've tried, at least as best I remember.  The light wasn't bright and contrasty outside, so the conditions were not as harsh as when I tested the SL (bright, contrasty light seems a challenge for most EVFs, including the SL).  Indoors, in lower light, the Z7 EVF showed a noisier, less realistic and less pleasant rendering.  Too bad no dealer near me has both the Z7 and SL to test simultaneously.  Seems to me, though, that it's not all about EVF resolution/MP.  The dealer showed me a booklet that describes how Nikon designed the EVF to best approximate an optical view, but whatever they did, seemed to have positive effect.  I hope the SL2 EVF performs as well.

Jeff

Cannot agree more on the Z7 viewfinder.

[250swb]

1 hour ago, tri said:

It is a shame, that a late entry to the mirrorless field needs such a modification for superior results.

It doesn't need any modification, if you had read through it was simply mentioned because a 'mine is bigger than yours' contest had been started. The whole point of the Z7 with M lenses is the already very thin cover glass.

Edited August 15, 2019 by 250swb

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[lct]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

It doesn't need any modification, if you had read through it was simply mentioned because a 'mine is bigger than yours' contest had been started. The whole point of the Z7 with M lenses is the already very thin cover glass.

1.1mm for the Z7 vs 0.8mm for the M240, 0.5mm for the M8 and 0.2mm for the Kolari mod. Reason why Kolari does a mod for the Z7 i guess. 

[Chaemono]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb lct:

1.1mm for the Z7 vs 0.8mm for the M240, 0.5mm for the M8 and 0.2mm for the Kolari mod. Reason why Kolari does a mod for the Z7 i guess. 

“turns out that the 1.1mm figure from KolariVision for the sensor cover glass does not include the expoxied-on glass portion of the sensor. So the real figure is ~2.3mm total glass thickness, not 1.1mm...”

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2018/20181009_1248-NikonZ7-cover-glass-thickness.html

[Guest]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb 250swb:

It doesn't need any modification, if you had read through it was simply mentioned because a 'mine is bigger than yours' contest had been started. The whole point of the Z7 with M lenses is the already very thin cover glass.

Film shooters have a big one to begin with

[Guest]

A big following in LUF, considering that Leica‘s the last and brave one (except Linhof etc.) to ditch film.

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Didn‘t Jeff mention lately, the Fujifilm GFX 100 having the sensor covered by substantial protection glass thickness? I wish I could remember the source he quoted. 

[lct]

It's a problem of M lenses on digital sensors. Very thin sensor stacks are not required otherwise.

[lct]

50 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

“turns out that the 1.1mm figure from KolariVision for the sensor cover glass does not include the expoxied-on glass portion of the sensor. So the real figure is ~2.3mm total glass thickness, not 1.1mm...”

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2018/20181009_1248-NikonZ7-cover-glass-thickness.html

Inteesting thanks. Could explain the Z7's results with M wides.
The Kolari teardown does not refer to that "expoxied-on glass portion" though.
https://kolarivision.com/nikon-z7-dissasembly-teardown/

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, tri said:

Didn‘t Jeff mention lately, the Fujifilm GFX 100 having the sensor covered by substantial protection glass thickness? I wish I could remember the source he quoted. 

Don’t know if you’re referring to me, but I did provide a link some time ago  regarding the original GFX and the 9mm gap between its sensor and cover glass to make dust less visible...

https://fujifilm-x.com/en-us/stories/gfx-technologies-2/

Jeff

[Guest]

„The flange back of G Mount is 26.7mm, but you can place a lens 10.0mm further back. The back focus distance is 16.7mm....

The cover glass is placed 9mm away from the sensor surface. If you know about mount design, then we are certain that you will be surprised with the figure.“

(This is a quote from the Fujifilm article written in 2017 that you gave us.) 

I wish I knew the exact figures of other mirrorless mounts, like SL, E, R, Z. 

Comparable drawings with exact dimensions, including the distance from the sensor plane to the anterior surface of the cover glass, too. And also the cover glass thickness. 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by tri

[keithlaban.co.uk]

50mm Zeiss C Sonnar ZM, Novoflex adapter, Nikon Z7, @ f/1.5 .

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[kinch123]

Bought a Z7 with the 24-70 f/4 kit lens the other day. Like the reviewers say, it's pretty damn good for a kit lens. I guess that's one benefit of all the online pixel-peeping reviews driving the market these days: kit lenses are starting to represent real value. Looking forward to getting out very soon with the Novoflex adapter and some of my M lenses as soon as I've digested enough of the manual to make sense of things.

I just wonder how often I'd have to use the Z7 to remember what's what though. With a digital M Body can pick one up after weeks/months and  the haptics are instinctive and the menus are so simple.

Feel a bit sorry for my 5 year old 16GB, 1TB MacBook Pro; file sizes are going to drag me kicking and screaming into the present.

 

[kinch123]

7 hours ago, keithlaban.co.uk said:

50mm Zeiss C Sonnar ZM, Novoflex adapter, Nikon Z7, @ f/1.5 .

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Someone will have to come up with a LR plug in to add back some focus shift

[250swb]

On 8/26/2019 at 10:15 PM, kinch123 said:

 

I just wonder how often I'd have to use the Z7 to remember what's what though. With a digital M Body can pick one up after weeks/months and  the haptics are instinctive and the menus are so simple.

 

 

It's not difficult if you keep to the settings you'd use on your M body. The thing that is often missed initially when setting the camera up is the image stabilisation for your M or other manual lenses. You find it in the 'Spanner/Setup' menu under 'Non-CPU lens data'. Start at Lens Number #1 with perhaps your widest lens, fill in the details of focal length and max aperture, move on to Lens Number #2 for your next widest, repeat, etc. then when you go back to this menu with say a 50mm lens on you call up the relevant number for it and bingo you have image stabilisation.

[kinch123]

9 hours ago, 250swb said:

It's not difficult if you keep to the settings you'd use on your M body. The thing that is often missed initially when setting the camera up is the image stabilisation for your M or other manual lenses. You find it in the 'Spanner/Setup' menu under 'Non-CPU lens data'. Start at Lens Number #1 with perhaps your widest lens, fill in the details of focal length and max aperture, move on to Lens Number #2 for your next widest, repeat, etc. then when you go back to this menu with say a 50mm lens on you call up the relevant number for it and bingo you have image stabilisation.

Thanks Steve, I'll do this. This week I'm still playing around with the 24-70 f/4 in an attempt to develop an instinctive feel for the various autofocus modes and other on-the-fly menu changes one normally makes when out walking and shooting. Just have to bang away at it until get at least half-way toward something like the Leica M Gestalt state of mind.

Can I ask if you're using the kit 24-70 f/4 or the pro f/2.8 in your Flickr stream? Lovely work!

[250swb]

9 hours ago, kinch123 said:

Can I ask if you're using the kit 24-70 f/4 or the pro f/2.8 in your Flickr stream? Lovely work!

Thank you. I'm using the kit 24-70 f/4 which I think is an amazing lens and incredible value when bought with the camera. I had anticipated getting the f/2.8 but when I picked my kit up from the shop (a Leica dealer so we naturally started talking about lenses) they said a long time Nikon user had also got the Z7 kit while the f/2.8 Z lens was on back order but cancelled it when he saw the results from the f/4. I couldn't quite believe what I was seeing from a 'kit' lens and being smaller makes it ideal walk-around lens.

I know what you mean about the AF modes but I soon decided that Single Point was the default for me (to focus then recompose like an M camera) and possibly the Auto-Area AF. Regarding focusing with M lenses I found turning up the sensitivity of the peaking one notch improved things and I also set the front FN2 button to be my zoom making it easy to dab it on and off while shooting in any orientation of the camera. This also makes the action very similar to focusing with the Visoflex on an M10. And metering is the same as I'd use on an M camera being either matrix or centre-weighted with the default -1/3rd of a stop.

[Reciprocity]

I have been a Leica user for about 15 years and a Nikon user for nearly 40. As much as I enjoy the Leica experience and have several bodies and lenses, if I had to choose one system only it would be the Nikon system hands down. One of the reasons is impeccable and fast service through NPS, Leica can not touch that and don't seem to even want to try. I also make some of my best images with Nikon cameras, I know them very well and work fast with them. 

I have tried other mirrorless cameras in the past and did not gel with them, they were not there yet and the menus on Sony's in particular were terrible as were the ergonomics. The Z series has changed my outlook on mirrorless so I now own two Z6 bodies and one Z7, incredible cameras. The new S lenses are simply spectacular, they hardly flare at all, have mind blowing light and color transmission and of course, new world order level sharpness. I have the 14-30mm F4, 24-70mm F4, 24-70mm F2.8 and 50mm F1.8. The 50 might be the sharpest lens I have ever used, I am going to put it up against my friend's 50 Apo Summicron and see how it holds up, I suspect it will somewhat shame Leica's 50mm flagship. 

And that brings me to the actual topic at hand, adapting M lenses to the Z cameras. I find it easy and worthy, all my Leica M glass works great with the Z6 and Z7. The 28 Elmarit Asph suffers a bit but both my 35's and certainly my 50's are fine. I will never own any Leica glass longer than 50mm so it's really nice to see two great systems playing so well in the sandbox. I skipped buying the Nikon 35mm 1.8S because the 35 FLE is so good on the Z cameras. I recently did a magazine piece in which one operative was a 20 mile round trip hike that saw me carrying the 14-30 F4 and 24-70 F4 with my 35mm FLE on an adapter for low light and the Z7. 

What more can anyone ask for really.

[lct]

8 minutes ago, Reciprocity said:

I have been a Leica user for about 15 years and a Nikon user for nearly 40. As much as I enjoy the Leica experience and have several bodies and lenses, if I had to choose one system only it would be the Nikon system hands down. One of the reasons is impeccable and fast service through NPS, Leica can not touch that and don't seem to even want to try. I also make some of my best images with Nikon cameras, I know them very well and work fast with them. 

I have tried other mirrorless cameras in the past and did not gel with them, they were not there yet and the menus on Sony's in particular were terrible as were the ergonomics. The Z series has changed my outlook on mirrorless so I now own two Z6 bodies and one Z7, incredible cameras. The new S lenses are simply spectacular, they hardly flare at all, have mind blowing light and color transmission and of course, new world order level sharpness. I have the 14-30mm F4, 24-70mm F4, 24-70mm F2.8 and 50mm F1.8. The 50 might be the sharpest lens I have ever used, I am going to put it up against my friend's 50 Apo Summicron and see how it holds up, I suspect it will somewhat shame Leica's 50mm flagship. 

And that brings me to the actual topic at hand, adapting M lenses to the Z cameras. I find it easy and worthy, all my Leica M glass works great with the Z6 and Z7. The 28 Elmarit Asph suffers a bit but both my 35's and certainly my 50's are fine. I will never own any Leica glass longer than 50mm so it's really nice to see two great systems playing so well in the sandbox. I skipped buying the Nikon 35mm 1.8S because the 35 FLE is so good on the Z cameras. I recently did a magazine piece in which one operative was a 20 mile round trip hike that saw me carrying the 14-30 F4 and 24-70 F4 with my 35mm FLE on an adapter for low light and the Z7. 

What more can anyone ask for really.

Interesting thank you. How do you manage to trigger focus magnification with M lenses on your Z cameras? Can you do it w/o unsticking the eye from the VF? Just curious.

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[Reciprocity]

3 minutes ago, lct said:

Interesting thank you. How do you manage to trigger focus magnification with M lenses on your Z cameras? Can you do it w/o unsticking the eye from the VF? Just curious.

I have been modifying buttons with raised areas of griptac for several years now and have done so on my Z cameras to better differentiate between them. So I hit the + button a couple of times and then return back to full view with the center button on the AF point controller. It's not as fast as I would like but it does work well enough.