M8 with IR Filters & lenses with NO coding

[gurtch]

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I just read Irwin Puts article, and I quote him:

 

"Upshot

The conclusion as reported in the previous test does not have to be altered. At least for all lenses above 24mm (and possibly including that focal length too) the firmware update and the IR filter in combination with the 6-bit coding do not improve on the general image quality that can be delivered by the basic combination of the lens without coding and the attachment of the IR filter. The firmware update may be required stuff for extreme wide angles but not for the more moderate angles of view, at least in relation to the color reproduction of the camera sensor. The IR filter has its obvious merits but introduces some flare, additional noise and lower contrast."

 

I received my two free IR filters (43mm and 55mm), but had not used them as all my lenses are uncoded.

 

After reading Puts' article, I put a Leica IR filter on both my 35mm ZM, and 24mm Leica ASPH, and set lens recognition to "OFF", and shot some outdoor tests. I was amazed; with both lenses, if their was cyan vignetting, I could not see it. The sky was "sky blue" and possibly the cyan blended in. Corners were a "tad" darker, but I always burn the corners in with my landscapes any way. I even held the 55mm IR filter in front of a CV 21mm lens, and got a similar result. As a result, I plan on buying several more IR filters and putting them on my uncoded lenses.

 

Has anyone else been using IR filters and uncoded lenses with lens recognition set to "OFF"? You may want to try it, it may work for you. The small amount of noticable vignetting in the 21mm shot was easily removed in P.S. This was a revelation to me.

 

Best regards

Dave G

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[RMF]

Yes, I use un-coded lenses with IR filters and the lens recognition set to "OFF". Works great for my 35-50 Crons, and 35 Nokton and 25 c/v.

[guywalder]

I also use IR filters with uncoded lenses (28 and 50), I have been working with recognition set to 'off' and I have been a bit unhappy with corner colours in some pictures. However I noticed the other day that if you switch recognition to 'on + IR' then the standard white balance settings warm up (ie they are a couple of hundred kelvin warmer), this helps the corners, and I'll be doing some more checking to see if I can find any obvious downsides in due course.

Guy

[gwelland]

I think you'll find the effect of the filters on the M8 when used 'off' will depend quite heavily on the subject colour mix and lighting conditions. For example, try shooting a large white board or building, largely cloudy or foggy scene and you'll find cyan vignetting will be much more noticable than many street, protrait or landscape scenes.

[lars_bergquist]

I have one uncoded 35mm lens (v. 4 Summicron) and one coded (Summilux ASPH). I must say that I cannot see much difference, except that with the coded lens, the camera software does of course compensate most of the brightness (not cyan) vignetting. All my lenses from 50mm and up are uncoded and will remain so (for some reason, the camera does recognise my 90mm lenses though).

 

Also, my 'Miliched' CV 15mm works beautifully with a B+W filter. No noticeable cyan. But of course I do take very few pictures of uniform white surfaces.

 

The old man from the Age of Yellow Filters

[lars_bergquist]

David, I registered my M8 in February and I have not received my courtesy 55mm filter yet. The only thing my dealer can do is mournfully shake his collective head. What the devil have you done to get yours? Give me a hint, please.

 

The old man from the Age of Yellow Filters

[bducsay]

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I registered my M8 in February and I have not received my courtesy 55mm filter yet.

 

Still waiting on my 55mm too and I registered the body in March. I received my 39mm over a month ago, however. I had pretty much given up on the 55. I guess we have to continue being patient.

[sean_reid]

If one does careful comparisons, the difference is obvious. Some subject matter will disguise the cyan drift but it most certainly exists and that is why Leica has spent a good deal of time and money correcting for it via lens detection and firmware. Cyan vignetting is something I've only seen with files that are over corrected and drift towards red in the outer zones. Puts is mistaken in some of his assumptions and conclusions about this topic, as has been the case several times when he's written about things digital.

 

Anecdotal information is useful but without careful comparisons it would be hard for one to draw conclusions about cyan drift. It exists, but is nearly unnoticeable, even with 50 mm lenses. With 35 mm and wider lenses, it will indeed be evident in pictures where the subject matter does not mask it.

 

Its the nature of the beast, as I discussed after my interview with one of the optical engineers who designed the 486 filter.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Chuck Hatcher]

David, I registered my M8 in February and I have not received my courtesy 55mm filter yet. The only thing my dealer can do is mournfully shake his collective head. What the devil have you done to get yours? Give me a hint, please.

 

The old man from the Age of Yellow Filters

 

A couple of weeks ago I emailed Leica politely asking for an estimate of when I might receive my chrome 55mm filter. The answer was that it would ship that same week, and I did receive it a few days later. I bought my M8 in April. I don't know if my email had any effect on delivery or it was just a coincidence. If you still have the confirmation email from when you ordered your filters you can just reply to it to check the status.

[carstenw]

I find that with the 35 Cron Asph, the B+W filter delivers good results, whereas with the 35 Lux Asph, the B+W filter occasionally has some cyan in the corners. I have only shot with coding+IR on though.

[gurtch]

David, I registered my M8 in February and I have not received my courtesy 55mm filter yet. The only thing my dealer can do is mournfully shake his collective head. What the devil have you done to get yours? Give me a hint, please.

 

The old man from the Age of Yellow Filters

 

Lars: I purchased my M8 end of Dec 2006 in the U.S., and received the 55mm black IR filter about a week ago.

 

Hope you receive yours soon.

Dave:(

[grober]

I'm working my way through my stable of five Leica lenses in getting them 6-bit coded by Leica Service (USA). My next wide, a 35 Summicron-Asph, is in its box, waiting to fly east to New Jersey very soon.

 

One of my two "free" filters from Leica Solms was an E46 for my 75 Summicron, as yet uncoded. Results don't compel me to send it in for encoding until I get all my wides done. And, between you and me, with all the computer upgrades, archive/back-up systems, unplanned software purchases and paid classes I need to take for this new digital environment, I think encoding the 75mm will be far down on the list, if ever.

 

-g

[grduprey]

I just read Irwin Puts article, and I quote him:

 

"Upshot

The conclusion as reported in the previous test does not have to be altered. At least for all lenses above 24mm (and possibly including that focal length too) the firmware update and the IR filter in combination with the 6-bit coding do not improve on the general image quality that can be delivered by the basic combination of the lens without coding and the attachment of the IR filter. The firmware update may be required stuff for extreme wide angles but not for the more moderate angles of view, at least in relation to the color reproduction of the camera sensor. The IR filter has its obvious merits but introduces some flare, additional noise and lower contrast."

 

I received my two free IR filters (43mm and 55mm), but had not used them as all my lenses are uncoded.

 

After reading Puts' article, I put a Leica IR filter on both my 35mm ZM, and 24mm Leica ASPH, and set lens recognition to "OFF", and shot some outdoor tests. I was amazed; with both lenses, if their was cyan vignetting, I could not see it. The sky was "sky blue" and possibly the cyan blended in. Corners were a "tad" darker, but I always burn the corners in with my landscapes any way. I even held the 55mm IR filter in front of a CV 21mm lens, and got a similar result. As a result, I plan on buying several more IR filters and putting them on my uncoded lenses.

 

Has anyone else been using IR filters and uncoded lenses with lens recognition set to "OFF"? You may want to try it, it may work for you. The small amount of noticable vignetting in the 21mm shot was easily removed in P.S. This was a revelation to me.

 

Best regards

Dave G

 

I use the lenses with IR filters with lens recognition turned ON and get great results. This was reccommended to me at the M8 workshop I attended in Chicago several months ago. Since I have only one coded lens I just set to on and forgot about it, no detrimental coloring found at all.

 

Gene

[rbaron]

I can see where you could set the menu to 'On' and leave it, even for an uncoded lens with an IR filter attached.

 

But what if the menu is left to 'On' and you put on a lens that is uncoded and does NOT have an IR filter attached?

[Baxter]

My limited experience is that the lens recognition needs to be activated and the filter used. Ideally in the following shots I'd have provided an uncoded 28mm image to show effect of in-camera firmware. However, this shows that the wider lenses really do need to be coded to get proper colour results. In sunshine, the effect isn't so marked as seen in the Tresco image, although sand at bottom is affected by the cyan.

 

I'd used expodisc to set the white balance. Only removed dust spots, no colour adjustments, nor B+W conversions to any images!

 

First image Zeiss ZM 50mm with Leica Filter with Lens activation on-hand coded. Next two images Zeiss ZM 21mm f4 with Leica Filter with Lens activation on, no hand coding. Cyan noticeable in both 21mm images, less so in the beach scene, sand at bottom reveals presence.

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[rbaron]

But what happens if the lens recognition in the menu is left to 'On' and you put on a lens that is uncoded and does NOT have an IR filter attached?

[Guest tummydoc]

In shots made with uncoded lenses I don't see one iota of difference regardless of how the lens detection is set. I see obvious cyan vignetting, from corners fading all the way to the centre, with 35mm and wider. Shooting at a white wall, lens at maximum aperture, exposure set +2 from meter reading to render the white wall white, is the best way to see the effect unmasked. I have used coded and hand-coded lenses with the firmware correction and found that it's efficacy varies with aperture and lighting, which is exactly as one would expect from an average-value algorithm. IMHO if CornerFix or PTCorrect are needed to supplement the firmware correction, I might as well forego the expense and bother of coding and simply use those excellent applications from the start.

[ho_co]

Robert--

Using a couple lenses that Leica cannot code, one an older 28/2.8 and the other an older 50/1.4, I've experimented to try to answer exactly that question.

 

I've run several tests with the 50, uncoded and with no filter, both outdoors and inside under tungsten light. In no case did I see any image difference among the three image detection settings.

 

In other words, I think--someone with better knowledge can correct me--that with firmware 1.107, if the M8 can't read a lens ID it simply defaults to the same correction it would give with "Lens Detection OFF," no matter what the actual detection setting.

 

That works fine with the 50; for shorter lenses you want another solution since the filters will cause cyan drift if not compensated in firmware.

 

--HC

 

(Oops--I see Vinay posted the same recommendation a few seconds before me. Code if you can. Use filters on lenses longer than 35mm whether coded or not; use filters on lenses 35 and shorter if coded; and set camera to "Lens Detection ON+UV/IR.")

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[rbaron]

 

I've run several tests with the 50, uncoded and with no filter, both outdoors and inside under tungsten light. In no case did I see any image difference among the three image detection settings.

 

 

Thank you. This answers the question I asked.

 

--Bob

[Skippy Sanchez]

Still waiting on my 55mm too and I registered the body in March. I received my 39mm over a month ago, however. I had pretty much given up on the 55. I guess we have to continue being patient.

 

hang in there, guys. i ordered two 39mm & two 55mm free IR filters in late january/early february. the 39's arrived april or may and the 55's just arrived YESTERDAY (aug 17).