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I picked up this lens at an antique shop today for $80. I bought it because I noticed it has an M39 screw mount; however, there are no maker's marks anywhere on the lens. The only markings are the numbers for aperture and focusing. It is approximately 250mm and uncoupled but was probably part of some Visoflex setup except there is no provision for a tripod mounting. As you can see, I have it screwed directly into an early Leica II. I was wondering if anyone can help me identify this mystery lens or at least point me in the direction where I might find such information.
Thanks in advance for any assitance!

Dave (seekwhence)

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And another from Ghester Sartorius' collection. Maybe the serial (8589726?) will help to trace more informarion on what - to me - looks as a prototype for a 250mm R-lens (Telyt-R 2.8/250?).

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Thanks for your help guys! I guess we will never know the real identity of this mystery lens. I went over it with a fine toothed comb and the only markings I could find were where someone had scratched "EAL43" or "EAL48" into it. In answer to the question by willeica, the maximum aperture is 2.5.

seekwhence (Dave)

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Posted (edited)

I think the first investigation to make is if it is really a lens for Visoflex : have you one to test if focusing is consistent with Leica+Viso usage ?  It would be good also to verify the real focal length … can you get an idea on the lens' schema ? Does it suggest a "long focus" or a tele design ? f 2,5 is very wide  for a 250mm … but indeed the item looks very long... :huh:

From a first sight, I'd bet for a 3rd party manufacturer… how is the black ring at base ? I mean, is it metal black or a rubber/vulcanite covering ?

Edited by luigi bertolotti

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I don't know how to determine the real focal length but there are multiple lens elements inside. The last one is is just ahead of the black ring near the base. Incidentally that black ring is vulcanite. It is possible there are markings underneath but I am very reluctant to remove the vulcanite since it is oviously part of the character of the lens.

seekwhence (Dave) 

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Posted (edited)

Looking at the position of "30" and "50" in the (meter, supposedly) scale distance, and at the diameter on which they are engraved, a focal length in the 200 to 300mm seems at all reasonable…  What is (about) the length of the optical unit in itself ? I mean, the top shiny cylinder is a hood, am I wrong ? I suppose the front lens is way recessed into…

Thinking of Leitz history… the item that someway comes to my mind is the Telyt 280... a Canadian item…. and the Canada factory made dozens of prototypes, some of them very "rough"... a possible relation ???:huh: 

Edited by luigi bertolotti

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Another observation (i downloaded and enlarged the picture… B)) : the max aperture is, as said, f 2,5 :  the next stop is hard to read… looks like "3,5" which would be strange (in the old european scale should be 3,2, in the international 2,8) : Dave, can you tell me how is the f stop scale ? Also, what is the minimum focus distance ?

 

 

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vor 22 Stunden schrieb seekwhence:

I don't know how to determine the real focal length....

Dave, max opening (f) is calculated as focal length / diameter of front opening (diameter of iris). Therefore real focat length (estimated) will be 2.5* max opening diameter. You may take diameter of first element, unless iris maximally opened is  smaller than first element

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First, the Ghester Sartorius lens.  That lens is a 180mm f2.8 Tele-Elmarit for Visoflex II/IIIA.  All of these lenses, those without identification or those with Leitz trademarks, were made by Schneider.  But the first few (prototypes?) had no markings except for a serial number in the Schneider sequence for 1965.  I bought mine from the Westlichte Auction some years ago.  My serial number is 8666904.  I can't quite read Ghester's serial number either; I sure wish I could.

Second, Dave's lens.  I own two lenses with the same aluminum construction, nearly identical engraving style, and the same knurling on the rings.  The first one is a Kilfitt 25cm f6.8 direct mount LTM lens; this lens appears on page 85 of Patrice-Herve Pont's book Killfitt and Zoomar Imageurs et Objectifs.  It does not have a serial number.  I believe it is one of the first lenses made by Heinz Killfitt and perhaps the very first.  The other lens I own again has the same aluminum construction, nearly identical engraving style, and the same knurling on the rings.  It is marked Telemar 30cm f4.5 Nr. 15001 and is for a PLOOT reflex housing.  I believe it is a wartime lens made by or in association with Heinz Killfitt, although I have no proof other than similarity.  The 30 cm f5.6 Kilar Achromat with built-in reflex housing is very similar; it is estimated that 50 of these lenses were made; it is often called a prototype, but I think it was a short production series.

I will prepare images for the two lenses and post them soon.

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First, pardon me for misspelling Kilfitt.

Here is the 25cm f6.8 lens.

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Here is the Telemar 30cm 4.5 lens. I am continually frustrated trying to figure out how to size files for this forum. 

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Thanks again my friends for all your informative insights and sharing your own lens images! I have some queries to respond to so let me address those.

1) The approximate length of the optics is 125mm

2) The aperture numbers are: 2.5, 3.5, 4.5, 5.6, 8, 11, and 16; the minimum focal distance is 3

3) The calculated real focal length is approximately 190.5

I hope this helps you experts more to nail down what this lens is!

Dave

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Posted (edited)

Very odd f/stop scale… :huh: : a prototype, of course… probably a 200  and Kilfitt (who made a 150mm for LTM) has a sense (another candidate : Steinheil ?) ; thinking of what I wrote previously… I bet for NO relation with Leitz Ontario…

Zeitz of course is right about the Sartorius lens : Elmarit 180 for Viso - Schneider prototype… with preset diaphragm which was kept in the listed Leitz-branded version :  I remember to have seen some other with s/n in that range (8.666.775... I made a bid for it, but different from Zeitz, didn't win…:rolleyes:)

 

Edited by luigi bertolotti

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I would throw another contender into the ring. It has a certain Steinheil look about it but as others have commented, it looks like a prototype, with the absence of markings. Steinheil (of München) did make a similar looking and finish 200/f4.5 Tele-Quinar lens in both M42 mount for Exacta and in Visoflex M39 mount. I wonder if this might be a prototype for a faster 200mm lens. 

From the Photographic Historical Society of Canada:

"Steinheil continued until 1962 when it was sold to Elgeet in Rochester, NY, known for its line of inexpensive movie camera lenses. Elgeet only kept the company for two years when it sold it to the aircraft company Lear Siegler in Santa Monica CA. From Lear it went to British Aerospace and by 1995 the grand old company, long out of the photography business finally disappeared."

Wilson

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Was it common to have the sunshade be an fixed, integral part of the lens? I have tried to remove the sunshade on this lens to see if there are any markings on the front of the lens body but it will not budge. There are no screws holding it in place and it will not unscrew. If it does come off in some way, I can't figure it out unless as I said, the sunshade is fixed to the lens and can't be removed which seems unusual. After all the excellent observations from everyone on this fine forum, I am tending towards the lens being a prototype - too bad we don't know by whom!

Dave 

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Try harder… :ph34r: by sense, it's impossible it's a single piece with the lenses'barrel (someone, though in a prototyping workshop DID assemble it) and I wonder why on hell the people who assembled this item decided to WELD such a hood onto… :huh:

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Maybe try a hair dryer round the joint. Aluminium to aluminium joints can bind really badly. PB Blaster is probably the best aluminium to aluminium penetrant I have come across but even hot water might work. 

Wilson

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Often squeezing a hood to try and get a good grip will distort it enough to lock it in place. Gripping the front edge of the hood at one point on the circumference May get it off.

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