wlaidlaw Posted June 15, 2019 Share #21 Posted June 15, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 22 minutes ago, derleicaman said: Thanks for reminding me about the Combat Graphic, Wilson. I wonder if the loss of fingers in this fashion would qualify you for a Purple Heart? 😀😀 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 15, 2019 Posted June 15, 2019 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Oiling a MOOLY. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bengi Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share #22 Posted June 28, 2019 Success! I didn't take any other photos during the clean up process but I soaked the internals in carburetor cleaner to shake out the rust then sprayed some penetrating oil into the gears and springs and and ran it a bunch while continually adding more oil. It seems to work great now. It sounds smooth and winds a million times easier than when I first tried it. I purchased a IIIa above serial number 159000 and it fit right on. It worked right away without any adjustments. Here's a video link with sound showing it operate. I can't figure out how to imbed it. https://imgur.com/gallery/r3WUTzB Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/298181-oiling-a-mooly/?do=findComment&comment=3768287'>More sharing options...
david strachan Posted June 28, 2019 Share #23 Posted June 28, 2019 Well done bengi. Looks lovely, you must feel well satisfied. ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 29, 2019 Share #24 Posted June 29, 2019 That is definitely faster than my MOOLY was even on its high speed, so I am glad I have sent it off for service. Its matching IIIa also needed its recent CLA repeating as it was very poor. I don't know for certain who did it but I have my suspicions that it was the same man in London who made a bog of the CLA on my IIf a few years, which I had to get redone by Peter Grisaffi of CRR. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgrimes Posted June 29, 2019 Share #25 Posted June 29, 2019 Shot a test roll. It appears any photo taken on 500th or 1000th of second is a blank frame. The condition of this iiia is unknown so it probably needs a CLA. But the MOOLY flawlessly advanced the film even with a modern 35mm cassette. I’ve just never seen blank frames at such high shutter speeds before. Anyone have any ideas before I send it off? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 29, 2019 Share #26 Posted June 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, Bgrimes said: Shot a test roll. It appears any photo taken on 500th or 1000th of second is a blank frame. The condition of this iiia is unknown so it probably needs a CLA. But the MOOLY flawlessly advanced the film even with a modern 35mm cassette. I’ve just never seen blank frames at such high shutter speeds before. Anyone have any ideas before I send it off? Sticking blinds would be my guess with the wrong or zero slot gap. It is odd that some cameras go donkey's years without needed a CLA whereas some seem to need a CLA every 10 years. My guess is that it depends on how well the CLA is done and whether the technician has moved over to modern synthetic lubricants. These retain their physical properties far better than organic origin lubricants, which used to be used for photographic purposes, do and don't oxidise into corrosive fatty acids. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted June 29, 2019 Share #27 Posted June 29, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Bgrimes said: Shot a test roll. It appears any photo taken on 500th or 1000th of second is a blank frame. The condition of this iiia is unknown so it probably needs a CLA. But the MOOLY flawlessly advanced the film even with a modern 35mm cassette. I’ve just never seen blank frames at such high shutter speeds before. Anyone have any ideas before I send it off? Probably shutter capping, which usually affects higher speeds. A good tech should be able to fix that. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengi Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share #28 Posted July 3, 2019 Short lived success.. It appears to have broken again. It now moves super slowly and the counter stops at 6 and won't move past it. I fear the worst. Does anyone know of a technician who I could contact about this? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 3, 2019 Share #29 Posted July 3, 2019 We want to isolate the cause, so first does the camera work properly without the MOOLY? I look forward to your response. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengi Posted July 3, 2019 Author Share #30 Posted July 3, 2019 Yes. Camera isn't the issue. I disassembled it down to the gears again. Something is broken somewhere. the counter still reads 6 and you can wind it up a bit but it loses all spring power once it reaches 6 again. It doesn't appear to be the main drive spring since the mooly still functions and moves the arm and shaft correctly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 3, 2019 Share #31 Posted July 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, bengi said: Yes. Camera isn't the issue. I disassembled it down to the gears again. Something is broken somewhere. the counter still reads 6 and you can wind it up a bit but it loses all spring power once it reaches 6 again. It doesn't appear to be the main drive spring since the mooly still functions and moves the arm and shaft correctly. Springs. Levers. Trip timers. Bearings. So complex in our digital paradigm. I look forward to your solution. Thank you for keeping us informed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 3, 2019 Share #32 Posted July 3, 2019 (edited) Hello Bengi, Some questions. After you disassembled & cleaned the mechanism as you described above: What did you do to lubricate the springs in the barrels after you cleaned them? Also: What did you lubricate the springs in the barrel with after they were clean? After the entire mechanism had been cleaned & all residue was removed: What type of oil did you use in the bearings when you were reassembling it? This is a start. Best Regards, Michael Edited July 3, 2019 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted July 4, 2019 Share #33 Posted July 4, 2019 Penetrating oil is a short term solution. Seeing how the mechanism looked before you need to disassembly completely, clean all rust and old grease, as well between the windings of the spring. Then use synthetic grease and oil with higher viscosity, not a watchmaker oil used for camera. Do not use penetrating oil as it is sticky with the time and might be aggresive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacey Posted July 4, 2019 Share #34 Posted July 4, 2019 By penetrating oil, I hope you don't mean WD-40. That is not a lubricant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bgrimes Posted July 4, 2019 Share #35 Posted July 4, 2019 I did not completely disassemble the interior of the mechanism. I used a penetrating oil designed for gear trains in a spray can after soaking the assembly in a rust removal solution. I think a complete disassembly is required. I am confident I can do it but does anyone have any documentation about the interior of the gears and windings. I’m worried about putting it back together with everything lined up correctly. I’ll order the correct grease and oil and remove the springs and clean them. I’m concerned once I remove the screws from the top plate the mechanism is going to simply explode and go in every direction. Any advice? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 4, 2019 Share #36 Posted July 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Stacey said: By penetrating oil, I hope you don't mean WD-40. That is not a lubricant. It also has ambivalent behavior. While it is excellent for purging moisture, later as it has almost evaporated it attracts moisture. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengi Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share #37 Posted July 4, 2019 Oops. That reply up there was from an older account I didn’t realize I had signed in on my phone. Continuing with my current one. Apologies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted July 5, 2019 Share #38 Posted July 5, 2019 On 7/4/2019 at 11:47 AM, bengi said: Oops. That reply up there was from an older account I didn’t realize I had signed in on my phone. Continuing with my current one. Apologies. Hello Ben, There are a number of factors at issue when you remove a spring of the type that is/are in the barrel/s in the mechanism. These springs have significantly more power than they would appear to. You have to let down the power as much as possible before you begin. With a spring that has old or improper lubricants: Simply letting the mechanism run down may leave you with significant unexpended energy remaining in the spring barrels. You have to let the springs all the way down correctly & then disconnect the spring barrel from the rest of the mechanism. There are machine, devices & aids to help you with this. It is better if you WATCH someone who knows what they are doing do this the first time or 2 because a lot of damage can be done by a spring that "slips" when you are doing this. Some of this type of damage may be difficult to fix. Then the spring is either removed from the barrel & cleaned. It is important NOT to "twist" the spring when doing this. A "twisted" spring will not properly power the mechanism when it is put back in the barrel. Or: SOMETIMES a spring is cleaned without removing it from its barrel. Depending on spring or/& circumstance. Then a proper lubricant should be used on the mainspring after it is in the barrel. And the barrel should be CORRECTLY closed. Then all of the other pieces, which have been disassembled & cleaned properly, should be reassembled with appropriate lubricants in the proper places. In the proper sequence. Since you have not done this before it might be better to do this with someone who knows something about doing this. Best Regards, Michael 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted July 8, 2019 Share #39 Posted July 8, 2019 Ottmar Michael can service a MOOLY for sure. I was visiting his shop in May. He has worked on a number of them and he knows what he is doing Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengi Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share #40 Posted July 8, 2019 I pressed ahead and completely disassembled the entire thing. The culprit is a broken main spring. Has anyone sourced a replacement? I'm assuming I will have to have it custom fabricated. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/298181-oiling-a-mooly/?do=findComment&comment=3774247'>More sharing options...
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