Favorite lens with your CL?

[nicci78]

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It took me 6-9 months to realised that I was hauling extra dead weight for next to nothing. 
Summilux-TL 35mm offered no real advantage against Q2 50mm crop. 
Summarit-M 50 or Summicron-R 50 are not superior to Q2 75mm crop. 
 

That’s why my CL is now a long and macro lenses only camera. 
 

By the way the q of Q2 stands for quad lenses. For real. 
So for around 700g I got a Summilux-Q 28 + Summicron-Q 35 + Elmarit-Q 50 + Elmar-Q 75 

Please not the 50mm crop is slightly  wider than typical 50mm (which are true 52.5mm) and that 75mm crop is a real 75mm. However 50mm lenses mounted with CL will offer slightly tighter field of view. Because they are equivalent to 79mm)

Edited July 31, 2020 by nicci78

[lct]

13 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

If I can tell you that the Q2 can replace all those 5 lenses. Without loss of image quality?

The Q2 is too soft at edges and corners for that, at 28mm at least. You may wish to have a look at the last Sean Reid's review from this viewpoint. The Q2 cannot mimic my favorite 35mm and 50mm M lenses either, let alone longer focal lengths. Now a Q3 doing 35/50/75 could interest me as a luxury P&S camera eventually. Interesting camera anyway.

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[nicci78]

To come to those conclusions, was not an easy task. Intellectually I had to change my habits. I did not really use crop mode with the Q that often. 
But since the last 9 months. I decided to give to a try. Using crop mode extensively, on purpose. When you would have wanted to change lens. I just crop it to the desired focal. It is really simple, but at the same time quite weird. 

My test shots proved that people weren’t able to differentiate between crop mode and the dedicated lens. 

So the results speak for themselves. I got rid of the extra weight/lenses. 

[cj3209]

2 hours ago, nicci78 said:

To come to those conclusions, was not an easy task. Intellectually I had to change my habits. I did not really use crop mode with the Q that often. 
But since the last 9 months. I decided to give to a try. Using crop mode extensively, on purpose. When you would have wanted to change lens. I just crop it to the desired focal. It is really simple, but at the same time quite weird. 

My test shots proved that people weren’t able to differentiate between crop mode and the dedicated lens. 

So the results speak for themselves. I got rid of the extra weight/lenses. 

@nicci78:  I'm glad the Q2 is working for you.  I have it as well and I also have the CL plus 23, 35, and 60 TL lenses.  I also own a 90mm M-f/2.5 cron.  While I prefer the Q2 to the CL, it doesn't replace it for me.  The CL with 23 is so compact, I can take it on my back while riding a bike; the Q2 is heavier.  Does 'CL'' mean 'Compact Leica?'  Who knows?

Also, the macro ability on the Q2 is not the same as the 60TL Macro.  And shooting the CL with a 60 or 90 lens is very different from shooting with the Q2 and cropping.  That's why I say it's apples and oranges.

In any case, I'm grateful that I can have and use both cameras, especially during these difficult times. 

I do appreciate your 'data' though - it's interesting.

Really great discussion - appreciate everyone's input.

Back to shooting great pics!

CJ

😁

[stephengv]

6 hours ago, cj3209 said:

@nicci78:  I'm glad the Q2 is working for you.  I have it as well and I also have the CL plus 23, 35, and 60 TL lenses.  I also own a 90mm M-f/2.5 cron.  While I prefer the Q2 to the CL, it doesn't replace it for me.  The CL with 23 is so compact, I can take it on my back while riding a bike; the Q2 is heavier.  Does 'CL'' mean 'Compact Leica?'  Who knows?

Also, the macro ability on the Q2 is not the same as the 60TL Macro.  And shooting the CL with a 60 or 90 lens is very different from shooting with the Q2 and cropping.  That's why I say it's apples and oranges.

In any case, I'm grateful that I can have and use both cameras, especially during these difficult times. 

I do appreciate your 'data' though - it's interesting.

Really great discussion - appreciate everyone's input.

Back to shooting great pics!

CJ

😁

Well said! How does the 23 compare to the Q2 with 35 crop?

[cj3209]

9 minutes ago, stephengv said:

Well said! How does the 23 compare to the Q2 with 35 crop?

I don't want to say anything until I take more pics with the 35.  With the pandemic and current lockdown in SoCal (not really a lockdown but a lot of places are still closed) I haven't really had a chance to put the 35 to use yet.

I will say that the biggest negative for me is the size and that's without the hood.  With the hood, it's almost obnoxious - lol...

 

[nicci78]

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I recalled that Q @35mm with 15MP already beats Summicron-TL 23 with CL. That's why I sold the 23mm at the time. 

So Q2 with 30MP will be better too. My findings are that Q2 at 35mm is an almost perfect 35mm at wide aperture. Sharpness and contrast are extremely high at f/1.7 and even across the whole image. No vignetting, no distortion, no chromatic aberration. Whereas TL 23 needed to be close to f/4 to achieve the same thing. But it will never reach Q/Q2 sharpness level. 

Q and Q2 at 35mm crop will give you the equivalent depth of field of full frame 35mm f/2. TL 23 will only provides f/2.8 equivalency at best. 

TL 23 has a weird quirk. The closer you get to the subject, the camera will automatically and progressively close down down until f/2.8. I am not talking of macro distance. Just normal distance. Making the TL 23mm a weird variable aperture lens. It should be marketed as Summicron-TL 23mm f/2-2.8

Q2 is only 140g heavier than CL + TL 23mm. The 23mm with its huge lens hood is actually longer and bulkier than Q/Q2 lens with hood. 

Q2 is fully weather sealed. 

Q2 has OIS.

And the best of all : Q2 offer out of view à la Leica M, for precise composition in crop mode. 

 

Then last, Q2 offers way better video than CL at every crop mode. 

 

To sum up, Q2 is already the best 35mm in Leica lineup. Maybe only beaten by M10-R with SUmmilux-M 35mm

 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by nicci78

[lct]

33 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Q and Q2 at 35mm crop will give you the equivalent depth of field of full frame 35mm f/2. TL 23 will only provides f/2.8 equivalency at best.

How do you calculate this? Just curious as i have no experience with this lens. I would have thought that at the 35mm crop, the sensor size is 4800 x 3200 pixels or 28.8mm x 19.2mm. Would mean a 1.25x crop factor vs 1.5x for APS-C, right?

[Viv]

23 TL.

[nicci78]

• Q2 at 35mm is 1.25x crop. So 1.25 x f/1.7 = f/2.1 Rounded to f/2
• CL + TL 23mm is 1.5x crop. So 1.5 x f/2-2.8 = f/3-4.2 Rounded to f/2.8-4

It is for depth of field equivalency. Nothing more, nothing less. Exposure will be f/1.7 for Q2 and f/2-2.8 for TL 23mm

I also forgot that Q2 has a macro mode that TL 23 did not have.

Of course Q2 macro mode is not in competition with APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60mm macro abilities. But I think that it is better to buy the way cheaper and almost as good Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm.

 

Everything longer than 75mm and wider than 28mm will be better than Q2. Obviously. 

Edited August 1, 2020 by nicci78

[cj3209]

33 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

• Of course Q2 macro mode is not in competition with APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60mm macro abilities. But I think that it is better to buy the way cheaper and almost as good Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm...

To use the R-Macro Elmarit 60mm on the CL requires the $1,000 Leica R-L adapter.  I know, there are cheaper adapters.

[lct]

30 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

• Q2 at 35mm is 1.25x crop. So 1.25 x f/1.7 = f/2.1 Rounded to f/2
• CL + TL 23mm is 1.5x crop. So 1.5 x f/2-2.8 = f/3-4.2 Rounded to f/2.8-4

Ah those "equivalences"!... Applying a 1.25x crop to the Q2 means a CoC value of 0.024 vs 0.020 for the CL. Then to get the same DoF as a 35mm lens on the Q2, a 23mm lens would have to open at... f/1 on the CL .

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[dfdann]

If I wanted a Q2 I would buy one. If I wanted a M10 I would buy one. The present CL

in addition to my M7 and M8 answers my needs. 
Cheers, Dan

[jaapv]

29 minutes ago, lct said:

Ah those "equivalences"!... Applying a 1.25x crop to the Q2 means a CoC value of 0.024 vs 0.020 for the CL. Then to get the same DoF as a 35mm lens on the Q2, a 23mm lens would have to open at... f/1 on the CL .

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So photograph you subject @ 20 feet, or move the background  

[AdHox]

Here I was thinking that this thread was about preferred lenses to pair with the CL. My mistake - we’re all missing the point and should be using the Q2. Now I just need some guidance on how to offload my CL and its inferior lenses so that I can justify a new Q2.

[nicci78]

Actually not lct 
CL + hypothetical Summilux-TL 23 f/1.4 will produce a depth of field as thin as Q/Q2 35mm crop mode at f/1.7

f/1.4 x 1.5 = f/2.1

f1.7 x 1.25 = f/2.1
 

Of course distance to subject and composition have to be identical. 

Edited August 1, 2020 by nicci78

[nicci78]

46 minutes ago, AdHox said:

Here I was thinking that this thread was about preferred lenses to pair with the CL. My mistake - we’re all missing the point and should be using the Q2. Now I just need some guidance on how to offload my CL and its inferior lenses so that I can justify a new Q2.

That’s the idea. 
I offload every TL lenses so far. 
After upgrading my Q to Q2. MY CL with TL lenses from 28 to 75mm equivalent, were not justifiable anymore. 
 

Of course you can do whatever. I just try to help people save some time. And go straight to Q2 for standard focal lengths.

 

 

Then for advice about TL lenses. 
It is quite easy. There are two tiers of lenses :    
- the best of the best : Summilux-TL 35 + APO-Macro-Elmarit-TL 60 + Super-Vario-Elmar-TL 11-23 + APO-Vario-Elmar-TL 55-135. 
- the fair but not outstanding ones : Elmarit-TL 18 + Summicron-TL 23 + Vario-Elmar-TL 18-56. 
 

The fair ones are exactly the one that Q2 covers best. So do not bother with those three. 
Only M, R and the best TL lenses worth the choice of a CL body. 

[NERICSSON]

8 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Actually not lct 
CL + hypothetical Summilux-TL 23 f/1.4 will produce a depth of field as thin as Q/Q2 35mm crop mode at f/1.7

f/1.4 x 1.5 = f/2.1

f1.7 x 1.25 = f/2.1
 

Of course distance to subject and composition have to be identical. 

If you crop on Q to "35mm", DOF will remain th same as 28mm?

[nicci78]

DOF is dependant of aperture and distance to subject only  

If you want to keep the same composition as 28mm with 35mm crop. You will have to get further away from the subject. Hence altering the depth of field. 

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[lct]

15 minutes ago, nicci78 said:

Actually not lct 
CL + hypothetical Summilux-TL 23 f/1.4 will produce a depth of field as thin as Q/Q2 35mm crop mode at f/1.7

f/1.4 x 1.5 = f/2.1

f1.7 x 1.25 = f/2.1
 

Of course distance to subject and composition have to be identical. 

Seems like you're forgetting CoC values here. Just forget the Q2 for a moment and compare the M8 (1.33x crop factor, 0.023 CoC) to the digital CL (1.50x crop factor, 0.020 CoC). To get similar fields of view, we would put a 40mm lens on the M8 (40 x 1.33 = 53.2) and a 35mm lens on the CL (35 x 1.5 = 52.5). Then we would get the following results DoF wise. Little difference as expected.

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Edited August 1, 2020 by lct