Xícara de Café Posted June 9, 2019 Share #1 Posted June 9, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I'm looking for a non-proprietary solution (forgive me) to retouch black and white prints on resin coated paper (Ilford satin and pearl). I've read conflicting reports about Indian ink, one report saying that it does not penetrate the resin and another specifically recommending water-based Indian ink for these papers. Please, does anyone have any comments or suggestions? Thanks! P.S. I know that products like Marshall's Spot-all exist, however these sorts of things aren't available in this country and can take a couple months to arrive by post. Edited June 9, 2019 by Xícara de Café Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 9, 2019 Posted June 9, 2019 Hi Xícara de Café, Take a look here Retouch black & white resin prints with Indian ink?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
frame-it Posted June 9, 2019 Share #2 Posted June 9, 2019 https://www.amazon.com/Print-Ansel-Adams-Photography/dp/0821221876 "use equal parts (by weight) of Chinese (stick) ink and gum Arabic; dissolve in enough water to cover these ingredients, and mix. Let dry out and mold to suit. Moisten a brush in water (to which a wetting agent may be added), wipe on a piece of paper until the proper gray shows, then apply to the print. A dry brush works much better than a "wet" brush. The amount of gum Arabic may be increased 2 or 3 time to increase the sheet of the spotted area of the print." 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xícara de Café Posted June 9, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted June 9, 2019 4 hours ago, frame-it said: https://www.amazon.com/Print-Ansel-Adams-Photography/dp/0821221876 "use equal parts (by weight) of Chinese (stick) ink and gum Arabic; dissolve in enough water to cover these ingredients, and mix. Let dry out and mold to suit. Moisten a brush in water (to which a wetting agent may be added), wipe on a piece of paper until the proper gray shows, then apply to the print. A dry brush works much better than a "wet" brush. The amount of gum Arabic may be increased 2 or 3 time to increase the sheet of the spotted area of the print." Thanks, I should be able to find these two. I imagine Adams was using fibre based paper. This technique works well with resin papers too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted June 9, 2019 Share #4 Posted June 9, 2019 try it out in a small batch first Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 10, 2019 Share #5 Posted June 10, 2019 The key point about Marshall's Spot-All and similar photo-specific spotting materials is that they are dyes designed to penetrate the print's gelatin, and not just sit on the surface. That is, they are colored at the molecular level, which is a much smaller physical unit that a flake or powder-grain of pigment. India/British/Chinese ink is pigment (soot, carbon black) particles suspended in water plus gelatin or gum arabic. I suspect it will tend to sit on the surface, as those particles, no matter how finely ground by human means, will be thousands of times larger than a dye molecule, and just not penetrate completely. That may introduce "gloss differential" - that is, the spotted area will reflect light differently viewed from a glancing angle. It may also flake off with time, unless put behind glass for protection. (Gloss differential is also a problem with archival photo inkjet printers, which use suspended-pigment inks because they are more archival (light-fast) than the dye inks used for everyday office printing and the first generation of photo printers. It's a trade-off - longer lasting prints vs. prints that avoid GD and look more like chemical prints with the dyes or silver actually "inside" the gelatin surface. Epson et al have worked hard on that problem, but it is just improved, not solved. The advent of the soft-gloss fiber-gloss-baryta papers have been a step forward, but not yet perfect.) What was adequate for AA 50 years ago, with semi-gloss "air-dried glossy F" paper - before RC papers with mirror-gloss or luster surfaces came along - may not be as good a technique with RC papers. _______________________ Nevertheless, it is a cheap experiment to give it a try, and see how the spotting shows afterwards. Probably also worth looking into the premixed, bottled India Ink, which may have finer pigment particles due to machine-grinding in the factory. Personally, if I can't get Marshall's, I use the pre-loaded artists' water-dye pens/brushes, which come in a variety of gray shades + black, as well as all the "pretty colors." Available in most art-supply stores. Their "ink" soaks into RC pearl/luster/gloss papers just like Marshall's. I use Tombow, but Sakura and Pentel and other such "marker/pen" companies make them also. https://www.tokopedia.com/lix/sakura-koi-coloring-brush-pen 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xícara de Café Posted June 11, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted June 11, 2019 (edited) Went to a big art supply shop yesterday and found gum arabic and stick ink, both in liquid form. Also found a set of grey sakura pens. Worked out cheaper buying the pens than the former, so I did that. Tested on pearl Ilford RC paper last night and turned out very well. Seemed to soak in completely. While I'm using the pens I'll order some Marshall's spot-all. Thanks very much to you both for the tips and information! Edited June 11, 2019 by Xícara de Café 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted June 24, 2019 Share #7 Posted June 24, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am still using my little bottle of Johnson’s spotting medium that I bought in the 1970’s. One small bottle will last a lifetime. if you overdo it you can wipe it off as it is just water based. The trouble with dye types soaking into the paper is that you cannot remove them if you get the spotting too dark. It does show more on resin coated paper than real “paper” paper and rougher art type papers are best at hiding where you have spotted them. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/298121-retouch-black-white-resin-prints-with-indian-ink/?do=findComment&comment=3765601'>More sharing options...
Pyrogallol Posted June 24, 2019 Share #8 Posted June 24, 2019 I also have some Spotone which does soak in. I tried it once on a 5x4 negative to spot out a dust spot, but spoilt it and couldn’t undo it. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/298121-retouch-black-white-resin-prints-with-indian-ink/?do=findComment&comment=3765608'>More sharing options...
pico Posted June 24, 2019 Share #9 Posted June 24, 2019 23 minutes ago, Pyrogallol said: I also have some Spotone which does soak in. I tried it once on a 5x4 negative to spot out a dust spot, but spoilt it and couldn’t undo it. You might have better luck removing the Spotone using a negative retouching razor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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