bags27 Posted June 5, 2019 Share #1 Posted June 5, 2019 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, it's not DxO's PhotoLab2, which many consider the very finest raw converter (I know that is fighting words--please just read on--my question was rhetorical and I'm not trying to start a fight 😀). Robin Whalley, who knows a few things about post-processing, just today posted the video below, and praises PhotoLab2 to the sky at around 10:00. I agree with Whalley: I've been using Photolab for the Q and love it. From there, if you want more polish, it plays great with LR, CR, and PS. And the new release today of Nik2 collection plays really great with the latest release of Photolab. A very, very powerful combo. But PhotoLab2 does not recognize dngs from the CL or TL2, and this is a real shame. (You can work backwards into PhotoLab by saving your PS work in tiff format, but it's not nearly as good, since it's already been converted in CR or elsewhere.) I've twice asked DxO to fix this (they do have fantastic support), but no luck so far. I guess they just don't get the demand for CL/TL2. If anyone wants to help get those cameras recognized in PhotoLab2 (and you can download a free 30 day trial of PL2 to test it on your other cameras), please ask them for it here: https://shop.dxo.com/zendesk_login2.php?brand_id=3280266&locale_id=1&return_to=https%3A%2F%2Fsupport.dxo.com%2Fhc%2Fen-us%2Frequests%2F180005×tamp=1559764819 Many thanks! Edited June 5, 2019 by bags27 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 5, 2019 Posted June 5, 2019 Hi bags27, Take a look here Best Raw Converter for CL/TL2?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
M.piras Posted June 7, 2019 Share #2 Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) I was an happy owner th the nik collection (bought around 10 months ago) and wrote the ticket to dxo as you suggested. I never used photolab neither photolab2, but I would give a chance (in my opinion lightroom 2018 is really the state of art) this was the answer given by Riley from support team : Quote Matteo,There is no confirmation to give you at this time, this camera is not yet on our roadmap. At this time, the only thing we can do is have you request this camera on the form. My apologies.regards, Riley DxO Customer Support Now, as I said I would give it a chance but an answer of this kind let me understand they are just running on the back of others and photolab will never be , in my opinion, a leader product on the market. Leica CL is not new to the market, and photolab2 instead it is, so a new product not including a 1 year and half (a little less) old camera...in my opinion is a shame. with actual market after 2 max 3 years you MUST change the camera due to great conveninence of technical renovations in the sensors. You could keep, but if you work with it and is not just an hobby, you HAVE to change, to stay up to date and save the investment. here is the point if after 1y1/2 no CL plugin are released...when you can think to obtain one update to CL2 plugin? no way, in my opinion they are just a shame. anyways if they will ever make an update, surely I will be glad to test it. Regards M.Piras Edited June 7, 2019 by M.piras 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted June 7, 2019 Thanks for this, Matteo: I really appreciate your help. I understand that DxO should be doing this, but as well, iOS does not support the CL/TL2 raw format either: https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT208967 this is somewhat worrisome about the long term viability of the format, I would think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in Wales Posted June 7, 2019 Share #4 Posted June 7, 2019 8 hours ago, bags27 said: Thanks for this, Matteo: I really appreciate your help. I understand that DxO should be doing this, but as well, iOS does not support the CL/TL2 raw format either: https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT208967 this is somewhat worrisome about the long term viability of the format, I would think. OK, so it's time to show my ignorance, what does the above all mean, especially the 'heavy' type. I have iPhoto (Mac), LR6, PSE 13, all of which support my CL RAW (DNG) files, no problem. My understanding of DNG files was that they were 'universal digital negatives' capable of being opened and worked on by any photo editing suite. Or, as usual, have I got the wrong end of the stick Patience lads, please Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 7, 2019 Share #5 Posted June 7, 2019 The problem is that the DNG standard has many aspects and raw developing software tends only to implement the part of the standard that the maker deems relevant, which does not matter, until a camera maker decides to use the non-supported part. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share #6 Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, jaapv said: The problem is that the DNG standard has many aspects and raw developing software tends only to implement the part of the standard that the maker deems relevant, which does not matter, until a camera maker decides to use the non-supported part. Thanks so much for the clarity on this, jaapv. So, it's more or less up to Leica to try to align its standard. I imagine it doesn't worry about DxO, but maybe being ignored by iOS might give it some pause....hoping, but not optimistic. I know of a very high end and heavy user who is giving up on the CL because of this: thinks Leica is letting the format die naturally. Hope not! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 7, 2019 Share #7 Posted June 7, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) No it is not up to Leica, they are within the standard. The raw converters must be updated by the developers. It is irrational to give up on Leica. Better to pester the software engineers into action. It is sheer laziness (or cost-cutting) to leave out part of a supported format when developing a program. We had the same with the Monochrom. It took Apple a year... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share #8 Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, jaapv said: . Better to pester the software engineers into action. It is sheer laziness (or cost-cutting) to leave out part of a supported format when developing a program. We had the same with the Monochrom. It took Apple a year... That's what I'm trying to do. We should get everyone on the CL/TL board to follow the above link and make the request. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 7, 2019 Share #9 Posted June 7, 2019 Personally I don’t care about DXO. It is far from my preferred raw converter. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted June 7, 2019 Share #10 Posted June 7, 2019 11 hours ago, bags27 said: Thanks for this, Matteo: I really appreciate your help. I understand that DxO should be doing this, but as well, iOS does not support the CL/TL2 raw format either: https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT208967 this is somewhat worrisome about the long term viability of the format, I would think. as an interested bystander (I lurk here alot- although i am a Q-(Classic) shooter) i am shocked that Apple has not added support for the CL/TL2 raw format as of the March 2019 you posted. I note that the Q2 format (which may be the same as the Q is not supported as of yet as well). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 7, 2019 Author Share #11 Posted June 7, 2019 37 minutes ago, jaapv said: Personally I don’t care about DXO. It is far from my preferred raw converter. What is? I like Adobe RC a lot, but Dx0 can do much more on the way to Photoshop, and is pretty widely considered the best noise reduction in the business--something that's good with the CL and telelphoto lenses. And even if it's not your favorite, maybe you could just ask for it anyway, out of a sense that we need to widen acceptance of the CL/TL2 format? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 7, 2019 Share #12 Posted June 7, 2019 I think ACR is at least as good with more user control in my hands and any residual noise can be eliminated with Topaz Denoise (almost never) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 7, 2019 Share #13 Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, bags27 said: Thanks for this, Matteo: I really appreciate your help. I understand that DxO should be doing this, but as well, iOS does not support the CL/TL2 raw format either: https://support.apple.com/en-ph/HT208967 this is somewhat worrisome about the long term viability of the format, I would think. The CL DNG files are well supported by iOS ... I process them on my iPad Pro 11" with Photos, RAW Power, Snapseed, and Affinity Photo very easily, and they look great. I'm pretty sure the TL2 DNG files are also fully supported ... Send me one and I'll test it out. I know Q2 and Q files are supported as well, and of course my M-D262, M-P240, X113, and SL files are all supported too. The problem is that the list you've linked to isn't 100% complete and definitive, despite the fact that the software is all there. I'll send a note to my friends in Apple Product Documentation (I worked in Apple Developer Publications, a sister organization, for five years and know plenty of folks in APD...) and ask them to bring it up to date, but don't expect immediate turnaround. Remember: The technical notes are written/maintained by people, and people are fallible... Apple works pretty closely with Leica and has a support rep assigned to them because Leica is a high profile client. Mistakes happen from time to time. Edited June 7, 2019 by ramarren 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted June 8, 2019 Share #14 Posted June 8, 2019 By the way: Photos, RAW Power, Lightroom 6.14, Luminar, ON1, and Affinity Photo on macOS Mojave also support all of the above cameras well. On macOS, I tend to use LR 6.14, but its days are numbered. I'll move to one of the above soon. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreyg Posted June 8, 2019 Share #15 Posted June 8, 2019 As does Capture One. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted June 8, 2019 Share #16 Posted June 8, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, ramarren said: By the way: Photos, RAW Power, Lightroom 6.14, Luminar, ON1, and Affinity Photo on macOS Mojave also support all of the above cameras well Yes. RAW Power in particular uses Apple's native MacOS raw converter. There is no problem with CL DNGs that I could see when testing RAW Power, even though the CL is not on Apple's list. Edited June 8, 2019 by rob_w 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ynp Posted June 8, 2019 Share #17 Posted June 8, 2019 I am happy to use the Iridient Developer 3.3.6 for all my Leicas. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgo2 Posted June 18, 2019 Share #18 Posted June 18, 2019 I have twice put in requests to DxO for support of the CL. Mainly, I want to have access to the PRIME noise reduction engine for selected images. Since Photolab 2 already supports the M10, Q and SL, I expect that the CL will be added one of these days. Meanwhile, my favorite raw converter for the CL and every other camera is Photo Ninja. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted June 18, 2019 Author Share #19 Posted June 18, 2019 3 hours ago, robgo2 said: I have twice put in requests to DxO for support of the CL. Mainly, I want to have access to the PRIME noise reduction engine for selected images. Since Photolab 2 already supports the M10, Q and SL, I expect that the CL will be added one of these days. Meanwhile, my favorite raw converter for the CL and every other camera is Photo Ninja. DxO has told me the CL is NOT on their current road map. And I agree: very best noise reduction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgo2 Posted June 18, 2019 Share #20 Posted June 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, bags27 said: DxO has told me the CL is NOT on their current road map. And I agree: very best noise reduction. Well, roadmaps can change. Let's hope for it. Fortunately for me, Noise Ninja (inside Photo Ninja) is one of the best NR programs you can find. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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