M10-D for USD 6.4K - is that price real ?

[Chaemono]

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb dkmoore:

Buy the dang amazon M10D and thank me later. A completely safe transaction. 

I think we moved well beyond that. We are trying to work out issues with 10K tiny metal boxes.

[dkmoore]

23 minutes ago, Chaemono said:

I think we moved well beyond that. We are trying to work out issues with 10K tiny metal boxes.

Thinking this hard is boring. 😎

bresson had automagic because he probably didn’t think this much. 

 

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[bags27]

57 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Well, I purchased from this seller and the lens was not even close to how it was described. It had 10 cleaning marks and was filthy front and back but was described as excellent with perfect glass. Just FYI only. 

Thanks for this. Wondering whether you returned it and/or give him a negative score. 

[dkmoore]

4 minutes ago, bags27 said:

Thanks for this. Wondering whether you returned it and/or give him a negative score. 

I did not give him a negative score because his communication was good and he took the return with zero issue. 

Ive only ever given one negative feedback for an expensive book described as like new and the front cover was curved and bent, etc. 

[silverchrome]

If it says "ships from and sold by Amazon.com", you're buying from Amazon themselves and not a third party.

Unless I've missed something in this long thread, I really don't see what the problem is: Amazon.com is selling a brand new M10-D for $6423.63.

 

 

[dkmoore]

11 minutes ago, silverchrome said:

If it says "ships from and sold by Amazon.com", you're buying from Amazon themselves and not a third party.

Unless I've missed something in this long thread, I really don't see what the problem is: Amazon.com is selling a brand new M10-D for $6423.63.

 

 

Exactly what’s been explained. OP may have changed his mind or who knows. 

[fenykepesz]

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it's getting cheaper by the day : Amazon by Leica : 6316, Amazon by 6Ave : 6309 !

regarding the "who knows", it's just a question of getting hold of those close to 8K - quasi over night...

[lucerne]

2 hours ago, silverchrome said:

If it says "ships from and sold by Amazon.com", you're buying from Amazon themselves and not a third party.

Unless I've missed something in this long thread, I really don't see what the problem is: Amazon.com is selling a brand new M10-D for $6423.63.

 

 

You should read the thread.  It explains that the seller is Amazon Global Store (an international trading arm of Amazon) who have effectively contracted to purchase that  item from the dealer and in this case are now handling the sale on behalf of the US leica dealer (Leica Store SanFrancisco).   Its safe, but its designed to provide goods to non-US customers and therefore is authorised to collect due taxes on the sale.  So, you would find another $1279 added to the bill when you checkout at amazon Global Store checkout.    Not such a good deal.

i suspect that there is an element of legitimate tax avoidance built into the Global Store scheme and the package may never have    been in the USA.

delivery can take weeks.   The item might be shipped via Dubai which is a tax free area..

amazon is clever.

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by lucerne

[fenykepesz]

thank you for your advice, Lucerne, good to know ! 

though i am puzzled a bit at what point Amazon would charge for the taxes (in this case it's for a US delivery). 

here is what Amazon shows in terms of price, right before placing my order - minus my gift card amount, that makes it USD6309.  taxes should be have been shown at this stage, wouldn't they ?  see attached pic :

 

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[dkmoore]

13 minutes ago, fenykepesz said:

thank you for your advice, Lucerne, good to know ! 

though i am puzzled a bit at what point Amazon would charge for the taxes (in this case it's for a US delivery). 

here is what Amazon shows in terms of price, right before placing my order - minus my gift card amount, that makes it USD6309.  taxes should be have been shown at this stage, wouldn't they ?  see attached pic :

 

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Lucerne is incorrect. There is no hidden tax. Amazon is clever because they find a way to sell goods cheaper than anyone else. Hence why they are a behemoth. 

Shipping will also be within 5 days. To ensure I’m not spreading fake news I called amazon customer service to confirm my correctness. 

Edited May 31, 2019 by dkmoore

[silverchrome]

1 hour ago, lucerne said:

You should read the thread.  It explains that the seller is Amazon Global Store (an international trading arm of Amazon) who have effectively contracted to purchase that  item from the dealer and in this case are now handling the sale on behalf of the US leica dealer (Leica Store SanFrancisco).   Its safe, but its designed to provide goods to non-US customers and therefore is authorised to collect due taxes on the sale.  So, you would find another $1279 added to the bill when you checkout at amazon Global Store checkout.    Not such a good deal.

i suspect that there is an element of legitimate tax avoidance built into the Global Store scheme and the package may never have    been in the USA.

delivery can take weeks.   The item might be shipped via Dubai which is a tax free area..

amazon is clever.

 

 

 

I don't claim to understand it all but my main concern when buying from Amazon is that I get stock from a trusted source, and this means I do not buy from third party sellers.  This would be my main concern and not the extra charges because Amazon is quite transparent about them.

I was not aware that Amazon used third party stock to fulfil overseas orders that it itself is unable to fulfil (for whatever reason). However, I would have thought that this is only an issue when there are multiple sellers of the same item??

I had assumed Amazon used its own stock to fulfil overseas orders.  Indeed,, I noticed that the Amazon-held stock level counter deplete by the quantity in my order, even in cases where there were multiple sellers of the same item.

I've never had an issue with tax because I am in HK, but I know that Amazon does collect tax on behalf of the customs authority in the country of delivery as a way to streamline delivery and improve the customer experience.

 

[silverchrome]

50 minutes ago, fenykepesz said:

thank you for your advice, Lucerne, good to know ! 

though i am puzzled a bit at what point Amazon would charge for the taxes (in this case it's for a US delivery). 

here is what Amazon shows in terms of price, right before placing my order - minus my gift card amount, that makes it USD6309.  taxes should be have been shown at this stage, wouldn't they ?  see attached pic :

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

If you are having the order delivered to the US and you purchase the item that "ships from and sold by Amazon", you will definitely receive Amazon stock.  

Despite what others are saying, and given that Amazon US currently hold stock of the M10-D, I reckon this is also true if you have the item shipped to Canada.  Although with the latter, Amazon will probably collect the relevant taxes as stipulated by Canadian tax authorities.

[silverchrome]

And Ive just made a test purchase, which I will cancel later.  There is now only one M10-D left that "ships from and sold by Amazon".

[silverchrome]

On 5/30/2019 at 9:50 PM, lucerne said:

Don’t forgot that this Amazon deal is managed through the Amazon Global Store scheme (google that)  and in this instance, the seller is actually Leica Store SAN Francisco.    It’s a good way to get products from reliable US suppliers BUT after you click to purchase, you can examine your shopping cart and notice that in addition, you will also be charged as follows:

 $1,287.10 Shipping & Import Fees Deposit to United Kingdom

is it still a good deal?

If you buy through EBay, there is still the possibility that the carrier will declare the goods and import duties will be collected from you before delivery.

 

 

 

The import fees deposit is an estimate of the VAT and customs duty that is payable on arrival in the UK.  This is all collected on behalf of the UK government.  Amazon returns the excess (if any) to the buyer.  

I'm still not convinced that the item will be sold by Leica Store SF given that Amazon US has stock, and also my own personal experience when purchasing from Amazon US.  And I have bought loads of stuff, including cameras, phones etc.

[lucerne]

I understand everyone’s scepticism, but the case I’m explaining applies to an Amazon USA offer (I have to log in to the US website) which would be available for delivery to a U.K. and rest of Europe buyer.  Not to a USA or Canadian buyer.   To see how the scheme works, you have to be on the US Amazon website but outside the US when you add the item to your cart. The item must be stated as available to the U.K., and the seller will show as Amazon Global.  These are specific conditions.  Items marked as being sold as Amazon Global may not even appear on a system connected to a US. network. (I don’t know because I’m on a U.K. network). Amazon Global becomes a proxy for the original trader and if you examine Amazon Global terms and conditions as they are applied to sellers, you would see that amazon takes over the product and handles the sale, and the collection of taxes.  It’s got nothing to do with stock levels.   Further investigation of the scheme reveals that the product may never have left Europe.    A stopover for the product in Dubai is a bit of a clue as to how the scheme is configured).  Dubai is tax free.

here is an explanation of the scheme (as it applies to U.K. buyers, shopping on the US website.)

Yes, basically. If you were to continue to the check-out you’ll see that the seller is Amazon Export Sales, LLC. They act on behalf of a third party, collect taxes, import duties, etc., for US merchants. See here: https://tamebay.com/2018/01/buying-amazon-global-store-need-know.html

I tracked one particular offer marked as “sold by Amazon Global” and found the evidence that the original product was (had been) Leica SanFrancisco, who have a contract to have goods sold by Amazon Global.   

the scheme is not universally applied to every sale from Amazon US.  Hence silverchromes success with purchases in the past.  Congratulations on obtaining a $6400 M10.     Perhaps other U.K. buyers should follow your lead. It’s a reliable deal but you have to carefully monitor the shopping cart to ensure that no additions appear.  

There are many legal schemes for international trade and payments and this is one of them.  That’s how Amazon  manipulate tax liabilities in all the countries they operate.

I think these facts are worth knowing because it helps buyers check the quality and reliability of sellers. Unfortunately, many facts are obscured by the complexity of international trade.   Amazon adopts a variety of schemes worldwide to reduce its tax liabilities.  

however..... you are free to accept the facts or leave them.

good luck.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by lucerne

[fenykepesz]

wow, what detective work !  that explains the price differences while searching Amazon.com from inside versus outside the US.  the seller too looks then each time different : by Amazon, by Leica, by Amazon Global etc...

[lucerne]

20 minutes ago, fenykepesz said:

wow, what detective work !  that explains the price differences while searching Amazon.com from inside versus outside the US.  the seller too looks then each time different : by Amazon, by Leica, by Amazon Global etc...

Thanks.  My work hasn’t been in vain.  Maybe I didn’t explain clearly in the beginning that the browser identifies your location as well.  International Trade and Payments was part of my Masters degree studies many years ago.  The end game for international companies is to optimise their taxation related to manufacturing and distribution across all their continents.  That’s why Amazon has the myriad of operating companies around the world and its how they implement beneficial transfer pricing to improve profits wherever they desire.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by lucerne

[low325]

Get it. The D is awesome

[silverchrome]

10 hours ago, fenykepesz said:

wow, what detective work !  that explains the price differences while searching Amazon.com from inside versus outside the US.  the seller too looks then each time different : by Amazon, by Leica, by Amazon Global etc...

Make sure that you that you check who the seller is when you see these price fluctuations.  What appears to be a price rise or decrease is often explained by the fact that the seller has changed.  

Also, Amazon uses algorithms to adjust its own prices.  Prices can go up or down for a number of reasons, including demand and the price that other sellers are selling at.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[silverchrome]

9 hours ago, lucerne said:

Thanks.  My work hasn’t been in vain.  Maybe I didn’t explain clearly in the beginning that the browser identifies your location as well.  International Trade and Payments was part of my Masters degree studies many years ago.  The end game for international companies is to optimise their taxation related to manufacturing and distribution across all their continents.  That’s why Amazon has the myriad of operating companies around the world and its how they implement beneficial transfer pricing to improve profits wherever they desire.

 

Like I said, I don't claim to know how all of this works but I have not personally experienced any of the things you mention.

I have access to a VPN and can change my location at will, and still, everything remains the same.

So who knows.