M10-D for USD 6.4K - is that price real ?

[Chaemono]

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vor 19 Minuten schrieb TomB_tx:

Yes, I'd rather support Leica US and local dealers, but sometimes the budget won't allow that.

+1. For Pisti it seems either a good deal on a new M10-D or no M body at all. For some reason he doesn’t want to buy used. I only bought reimports twice, in 2015 a brand new 75 Summicron-M and a brand new 90 Summicron-M for € 2,268 and € 2,588, respectively. Everything else was bought from my local dealer. These deals on Leica lenses aren’t available any longer from that “UK” site BTW. 

[bags27]

Sorry: something else I do on expensive products. I visit the on-line store of the seller. See how many other expensive products he has and how he prices them. You can get a pretty good sense of how professional he is and how much experience with Leica products specifically. Here's one (of several) examples of someone I completely trust:

https://www.ebay.com/str/canonwala/Leica/_i.html?_storecat=11245420015

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[NigelG]

When I look on amazon.com the listing for the M10-D states that it “ships from and is sold by Amazon.com

Is this only because it’s shipping to the UK so Amazon themselves cover it?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[Chaemono]

Yes, basically. If you were to continue to the check-out you’ll see that the seller is Amazon Export Sales, LLC. They act on behalf of a third party, collect taxes, import duties, etc., for US merchants. See here: https://tamebay.com/2018/01/buying-amazon-global-store-need-know.html

[NigelG]

Ok - that makes sense. What it should imply though is that Amazon US “trust” the local seller enough to effectively purchase from them and ship to the overseas buyer - taking the risk as an intermediary....

[Chaemono]

I’d still go with PayPal on eBay. And the item is cheaper from the same seller there. 😀

[lucerne]

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1 hour ago, NigelG said:

When I look on amazon.com the listing for the M10-D states that it “ships from and is sold by Amazon.com

Is this only because it’s shipping to the UK so Amazon themselves cover it?

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Don’t forgot that this Amazon deal is managed through the Amazon Global Store scheme (google that)  and in this instance, the seller is actually Leica Store SAN Francisco.    It’s a good way to get products from reliable US suppliers BUT after you click to purchase, you can examine your shopping cart and notice that in addition, you will also be charged as follows:

 $1,287.10 Shipping & Import Fees Deposit to United Kingdom

is it still a good deal?

If you buy through EBay, there is still the possibility that the carrier will declare the goods and import duties will be collected from you before delivery.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2019 by lucerne

[Chaemono]

vor 32 Minuten schrieb lucerne:

...in this instance, the seller is actually Leica Store SAN Francisco.

How do you know? It says that the seller is Amazon.com Services, Inc. See here:

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[lucerne]

1 hour ago, Chaemono said:

How do you know? It says that the seller is Amazon.com Services, Inc. See here:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Read about how the scheme works. Amazon.com services takes over the sale on behalf of the trader.  I followed the trail of the original trader and discovered the link they had with Leica Store SAN Francisco.   It surprised me, but that’s how it works.

https://tamebay.com/2018/01/buying-amazon-global-store-need-know.html

all in all, knowing that, the deal would be very secure, but it isn’t such a great deal.

ive learnt a great deal from this thread.  Amazon.com Services are part of Amazon Global Store which  operates the scheme worldwide.  Sometimes the item goes via Dubai. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by lucerne

[fenykepesz]

yes, Chaemono, i was also thinking about getting a different full-frame non-SLR camera body, Sony Nikon or similar - but none of those comes with the feel of a film camera.  i want to work like in the past with my Rolleiflex 2.8GX, Hasselblad 500c, Fuji 690, or even the small 35mm Rolley.  only the M10-D can replicate this and offer a kind of blind and undisturbed work flow.

in the past i had no problem purchasing used mechanical cameras, but in these electronic days i prefer to buy new items, at least in the case of this expensive Leica toy which will empty my wallet down to the last cent.  i don't have the time nor money to deal with problems that could arise from purchasing from the wrong place.  B&H in NY is an excellent store i always made good experience with, but i don't have (yet) the 8 grands...  perhaps i should wait a bit, save more and then go with B&H ?  or risk the amazonian (global) route ?

[Chaemono]

Pisti, yes, I know what you mean. It’s a struggle within one’s mind, should I get this or should I get that. It creates tension and even anxiety. Purchasing dilemmas can be the worst (together with moral dilemmas and Prisoner’s dilemma).

 

 

 

[fenykepesz]

see the mathematician in you, Chaemono !  yes, risk dilemmas definitely tickle the cingulates in us...

Edited May 30, 2019 by fenykepesz

[Chaemono]

Pisti, and gently tickled it better be. The cingulate receives inputs from the thalamus and the neocortex, and projects to the entorhinal cortex via the cingulum. This makes the cingulate highly important in mental disorders. I know a lot of mathematicians who are depressed, or schizophrenic.

 

[fenykepesz]

you are right, Chaemono, better gently, one depends on that black box !

speaking about brain - i addressed over the years several well known and very seniour photographers to discuss that moment, that one second, when all things they see in the motive come together in their minds, get merged, decided on and then spit out in form a picture that is taken in that given moment through a button press.  i find this a very cognitive, and potentially a quite intelligent process deeply rooted in education and culture.  i am very fond of works by Cartier-Bresson, Kertész et al where this process seemed to have worked just automagically...

i feel an M10-D would allow my mind to work fairly undisturbed and focus on the matter of interest and creatively use the physics of photography to generate the picture it envisions - like i speak about it on my website.

[Chaemono]

vor 30 Minuten schrieb fenykepesz:

i feel an M10-D would allow my mind to work fairly undisturbed...

Got it, Pisti. But in one moment you speak of the M10-D as a ‘therapeutic’ tool...

vor 2 Stunden schrieb fenykepesz:

this expensive Leica toy

...while in the next you disparage it as an “expensive Leica toy.” This just doesn’t compute somehow with your philosophy of minds and objects getting merged through a button press in the decisive moment. Maybe your cingulate is being tickled a bit too intensely by all this purchasing dilemma. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Chaemono

[fenykepesz]

ojwej, Chaemono, you may be right, what a dilemma.  i guess some form of humor or sarcasm is needed to digest the Hiobs thought of spending nearly 10K on a tiny metal box of a few centimeters size, not to speak about how wanting to justify this at home

so, as you see, this therapeutic peace of mind (set) you mention is currently not so clear to me...

[Chaemono]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb fenykepesz:

...spending nearly 10K on a tiny metal box of a few centimeters size,...

Now you’re talking. It’s good to let it all out. We need to cleanse our minds from those 10K tiny metal box thoughts.

vor 41 Minuten schrieb fenykepesz:

so, as you see, this therapeutic peace of mind (set) you mention is currently not so clear to me...

To the contrary, Pisti. Talking about it helps us deal with negative thoughts and feelings. You’re making progress, I’d say.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Chaemono

[dkmoore]

7 hours ago, bags27 said:

In evaluating an e-bay seller when I buy something expensive, there are two micro-details I evaluate:

1 How many positives on "big ticket" items: maybe he hasn't shorted anyone before because it wasn't worth it to him. But in any case, I want to see consistent positives on the expensive products.

2. The nature of any negative complaints. Sometimes they're minor things; but sometimes it's claims like: he guaranteed 15 days return, but then refused to take it back....etc.

When I quickly eyeballed 6th Ave's positives and negatives on their first screen, given the size of your purchase, I wasn't fully inspired with confidence. I don't by any means think he's corrupt, but maybe just such a high volume seller that stuff happens. And, FWIW, Ken Rockwell calls a 99.6 approval rating "low". For me, anything below 99.8 and I automatically look very, very closely.

https://kenrockwell.com/tech/ebay/index.htm

I agree with this. However, through Amazon or PayPal or eBay you are protected. 

For the OP, the camera comes in an outer brownish box with a white seal. If the white sticker/seal is intact it is a new camera (most likely). If the white seal is broken, you return it. 

All tax and shipping is refunded to you so your not out any money. 

There is 0% risk other than maybe an hours worth of time if you have to return. Not a big deal for someone that is price concerned. 

[dkmoore]

7 hours ago, bags27 said:

Sorry: something else I do on expensive products. I visit the on-line store of the seller. See how many other expensive products he has and how he prices them. You can get a pretty good sense of how professional he is and how much experience with Leica products specifically. Here's one (of several) examples of someone I completely trust:

https://www.ebay.com/str/canonwala/Leica/_i.html?_storecat=11245420015

Well, I purchased from this seller and the lens was not even close to how it was described. It had 10 cleaning marks and was filthy front and back but was described as excellent with perfect glass. Just FYI only. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by dkmoore

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[dkmoore]

2 hours ago, fenykepesz said:

you are right, Chaemono, better gently, one depends on that black box !

speaking about brain - i addressed over the years several well known and very seniour photographers to discuss that moment, that one second, when all things they see in the motive come together in their minds, get merged, decided on and then spit out in form a picture that is taken in that given moment through a button press.  i find this a very cognitive, and potentially a quite intelligent process deeply rooted in education and culture.  i am very fond of works by Cartier-Bresson, Kertész et al where this process seemed to have worked just automagically...

i feel an M10-D would allow my mind to work fairly undisturbed and focus on the matter of interest and creatively use the physics of photography to generate the picture it envisions - like i speak about it on my website.

Buy the dang amazon M10D and thank me later. A completely safe transaction.