John Ricard Posted May 25, 2019 Share #1 Posted May 25, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) I take pictures at a jiu jitsu school in NYC. If I use my ancient Nikon D3s or my relatively new, Sony a6000, it is easy for me to get a WB that is pleasing to my eye. Either of these cameras on A mode will do just fine. Sometimes I'll put the Sony on one of the Fluorescent settings, and that looks fine as well. I use both of these cameras in JPEG only mode. I understand that there is no such thing as "correct" WB, but when I use the M10, I can't get colors that are pleasing to my eyes in this location. I shoot the Leica in RAW mode and no matter what I do in LR, the colors often seem "off" in this location. Below is a link to a Google Drive folder that contains 2 Sony JPEGs and 1 Leica M10 RAW file. Would anyone be wiling to work on the RAW file in LR and see if you can get the colors to be close to the Sony JPEG colors -or even produce a JPEG that looks correct to you? I'd love to know what LR settings you used to produce a good file from the Leica. thanks in advance, https://drive.google.com/open?id=19gUJh-BBWFzGM2Vp08q_7m91EB50fZr8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 25, 2019 Posted May 25, 2019 Hi John Ricard, Take a look here So, where's the "correct" white balance?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
6bit Posted May 25, 2019 Share #2 Posted May 25, 2019 Live view on the Leica makes a lot of difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted May 25, 2019 Author Share #3 Posted May 25, 2019 I've used Live View to cycle through the Kelvin numbers trying to find which one is "correct" for the academy, and I can't seem to find it. I've also done the same thing with the RAW file in LR with no success. That's why I'm curious as to what someone else would do with the file. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dau Posted May 25, 2019 Share #4 Posted May 25, 2019 You could set your cameras to record both JPEG and raw pictures. You could then compare the JPEG with the raw version of the images you like most. This would give you a baseline for your attempts to find the best settings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share #5 Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) I do shoot RAW +JPEG but that doesn’t help in any way. I am unable to get colors no matter which version of the file I use. Edited May 26, 2019 by John Ricard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted May 26, 2019 Share #6 Posted May 26, 2019 I've got your files, but before I do anything to the Leica .DNG, some points. 1) Your ".JPGs" open with Adobe Camera Raw by default, instead of directly into PhotoShop. Something in the file formatting is making Photoshop think they are RAW files, despite the .JPG extension. 2) Your JPGs are blue as H*ll, both visually and by the numbers, when I do open them. But if that's what you find pleasing, I'll try to match it with the .DNG. 3) There is more to matching photos from different cameras than just "white balance." The sensors are different, the sensor RGB bayer filters are likely different (Leica has their own idea of "good" color), and the profile/calibration applied is going to make a big difference, just as shooting Kodak vs. Fuji color film will make a big difference. E.G. with the same numerical WB, the blues may be purpler or more cyan between different cameras, the red may be more yellow or more red, and so on. Here's how one of your JPGs opens for me, resaved at web size but with no WB/color/etc changes made otherwise. Is this what you want me/us to match? To me this looks like someone just hit the instructor in the face with a strawberry pie, as well as being blue overall (Zombie skin for the other caucasians). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297647-so-wheres-the-correct-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=3747794'>More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted May 26, 2019 Share #7 Posted May 26, 2019 Advertisement (gone after registration) How is this? Just going by what looks about right ... Temp 3250 Tint +38 Exposure +0.20 Tone Curve Linear (default) Red Hue +68 Orange Hue +40 Blue Hue +11 Red Saturation +33 Orange Saturation +30 Blue Saturation +9 Red Luminance -9 Orange Luminance -4 Camera Profile: Adobe Standard Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297647-so-wheres-the-correct-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=3747802'>More sharing options...
adan Posted May 26, 2019 Share #8 Posted May 26, 2019 Yeah, I can get there, too - but it doesn't match the jpgs he gave us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted May 26, 2019 Share #9 Posted May 26, 2019 1 minute ago, adan said: Yeah, I can get there, too - but it doesn't match the jpgs he gave us. The jpgs look OK in Google Drive. They don't look blue like in the example you posted. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted May 26, 2019 Share #10 Posted May 26, 2019 (edited) The .DNG file looks quite typical for an M10 in my view. Sorry to say, but it was the reason for me to leave M10 and stick to my neutral M9. I had my M10 for a year and couldn’t get the yellow cast out in LR, C1 or PS. Of course this was not always a problem, but in 10 or 20% of the shots I couldn’t get it ‘right’. Saturation -10 in C1 helped a bit, but all sorts of combinations with WB, color management and saturation did not really lead to a satisfying personal color profile for my M10 shots. Btw, I couldn’t find it for the Sony A7 family either Edited May 26, 2019 by otto.f Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted May 26, 2019 Share #11 Posted May 26, 2019 My attempt at matching the jpgs as viewed on googledrive (not as shown above!) - in Adobe Camera Raw (should be similar to LR): WB 3100 with tint +37 EXP +.10 contrast -17 HL 0 Shadows +15 Sat 0 No HSL Reduction of vignetting +9 Highlight priority, Midpoint 36 Camera calibration panel - M10 Embedded profile Shadow tint -10 (green) Red Hue +24, Sat 0 (~normal for yellow indoor light) Green Hue 0 sat 0 (normal) Blue Hue 0 Sat - 30 (normal for yellow indoor light) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297647-so-wheres-the-correct-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=3747825'>More sharing options...
adan Posted May 26, 2019 Share #12 Posted May 26, 2019 One more note - lens color transmission can make a difference also. If you're not using the same lens on both cameras, there may be color differences due to Leica glass vs. Sony glass that can't be perfectly accounted for with just WB. Even older Leica 1980s Mandler lenses just emphasize different colors than modern Leica glass (or Zeiss, or C/V) - even when all used on the same body. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frame-it Posted May 26, 2019 Share #13 Posted May 26, 2019 i think the OP should check his in camera color adjustments if any. quick test in LR Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297647-so-wheres-the-correct-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=3747834'>More sharing options...
microview Posted May 26, 2019 Share #14 Posted May 26, 2019 2 hours ago, adan said: Even older Leica 1980s Mandler lenses just emphasize different colors than modern Leica glass (or Zeiss, or C/V) - even when all used on the same body. Interesting observation. Off topic I know but using a Nikon Z7 with Leica lenses i found a 35 2.8 Summaron gave greenish skies (not correctable in LR5), as compared to my M262. But with 50 Summilux asph, however, colours virtually the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted May 26, 2019 Share #15 Posted May 26, 2019 Really a question of taste, I think. My LR5 corrs: temp 3275 highlights -32 blacks +24 shadows +40 green primary -32 blue primary sat -39 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297647-so-wheres-the-correct-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=3747925'>More sharing options...
indergaard Posted May 26, 2019 Share #16 Posted May 26, 2019 Sadly, the pre-baked files from the M10 doesn't suit everyones taste. Basically, the M10's picture warmth is approx. 300-400 kelvin warmer at any given fixed white-balance setting than any other camera that I have tried. Daylight (5500) on the M10 is equal to approx. 5900-6000K on my Sony A7rIII. Then there is the fact that the M10 files also seem to have about +12-15 vibrance on them, as well as about +15-20 white-boost to give more "pop", etc. If you want fairly neutral files to start with from a Leica you should take a look at the SL. The M10 caters more for people that want pleasing images more or less straight out of the camera. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share #17 Posted May 26, 2019 17 hours ago, adan said: 2) Your JPGs are blue as Hell... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Yeah, I definitely tend to push all of my images towards blue. So it might have been wise of me to mention that in reference to the Sony files. As for the red skin tones, that is something pretty common when shooting this sport. I think it has to do with all the blood flowing through the body while these guys are rolling. Frankly it's worse on my Leica files, but definitely tolerable for me on my Sony or Nikon files. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted May 26, 2019 Author Share #18 Posted May 26, 2019 I want to thank every single person here who took the time to process my M10 file. Every image posted is "better" than what I've been getting, and having the numbers that you guys posted here will be very helpful to me moving forward with these files. My favorite processing is @zlatkob, but any of the versions here is preferable to what I've been doing. I think my problem has been not making adjustments in the HSL/Color section in LR. thanks again, everyone. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rnl Posted May 27, 2019 Share #19 Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) Greycard. Before you take a photo cycle menu to WhiteBalance and scroll down to Greycard. Take a photo of the greycard in the light in which you are working; when the image appears move the crosshair to the grey card and press the menu button. The camera is now set for the light. The images below were taken using this technique on a canon 1dxmkii and EF11-24mm lens. I set the white balance inside of the chapel by taking a photo of the card then took the photo of the chapel. the color of the photo exactly matches reality. you can also download a free apple app that measures the color temperature. see www.WhiBal.com Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited May 27, 2019 by rnl 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297647-so-wheres-the-correct-white-balance/?do=findComment&comment=3748607'>More sharing options...
evikne Posted May 27, 2019 Share #20 Posted May 27, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, rnl said: you can also download a free apple app that measures the color temperature. I use my WhiBal card a lot too, and an ExpoDisc. It would have been nice to have an app for the white balance, but I haven't seen any yet which also measures the green/magenta tint. Only Kelvin degrees isn't enough to achieve a proper white balance. Another advantage with measuring WB "through the lens", is that you may also compensate for (much of) any color tints caused by (especially older) lenses and filters, if they are not 100 % color neutral. Edited May 27, 2019 by evikne 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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