Leica M10 to M10-P Conversion

[helohe]

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1 minute ago, jdlaing said:

You know the aperture value shown on any Leica M camera is a guess by the camera’s computer right?

There is no way for a Leica M lens to tell the camera what f stop was used.

yes of course I know that. But the aperture is estimated using the light sensor in front of the camera and then stored in one of the exif fields. however it should be stored in both fields. those are just different formats for the same data. (https://www.media.mit.edu/pia/Research/deepview/exif.html)

[jdlaing]

3 minutes ago, helohe said:

yes of course I know that. But the aperture is estimated using the light sensor in front of the camera and then stored in one of the exif fields. however it should be stored in both fields. those are just different formats for the same data. (https://www.media.mit.edu/pia/Research/deepview/exif.html)

Looks to me that the second field is a mathematical guess based on the first field which is a guess. 

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[Paul925]

On 7/26/2019 at 5:28 PM, dkmoore said:

Bud, I have a recommendation. You can sell your M10 on eBay or try other forums for approximately $5k. 

Then you can buy a brand new M10P from Popflash for $7100 (brand new). 

Selling the camera will take 5-10 days max and have the new camera over night shipped to you once the other is sold. 

You save $1k and 7 weeks. 

I've watched this thread from its inception, since it had been plan to upgrade my M10 to get the new shutter by, at least, yearend.  Although it worked out well for the OP, dkmoore's comments got me to take another look at the current market.  Now that the initial glut of M10 users upgrading to M10-Ps has passed, the M10 used market seems to have taken a bit of an uptick.  So, my newly revised plan was to sell my M10 for $5,000 and purchase a new one.  I couldn't find the $7,100 price anymore at Popflash but, fairly quickly, I further revised my plan when I found a Leica dealer who, for $2,500 and my M10 sent me a brand new M10-P in black. 

I was without my M10 for only a 4 days.  It would have been less, but the carrier missed the promised Friday delivery date to deliver my camera and the dealer was closed for the weekend. I was pleased with the overall deal being fairly close to what dkmoore outlined after considering that I didn't have to pay PayPal seller fees for selling my M10 (~$150USD)--and my costs of the transaction were further reduced because I got a $48 refund on my shipping fees due to the botched delivery.  

As to the camera?  Well, the first time I fired the shutter, I must admit that I actually said "Oh my"--it is just that quiet.  in fact, it was the shutter I had hoped for with my M240 and then M10.  So,, whether you do it by upgrade, sale and repurchase, or trade, if you can make it happen the M10-P really is a nice upgrade.  Downsides?  Well, I was disappointed that my Huelight profile for my M10 doesn't work and he doesn't offer one for the M10-P--yet--but, for that M10-P shutter?  I'll wait.

[dkmoore]

Nicely done. You got a solid deal. Enjoy the M10P. I thoroughly enjoy mine.

[Paul925]

4 minutes ago, dkmoore said:

Nicely done. You got a solid deal. Enjoy the M10P. I thoroughly enjoy mine.

Thanks!  I do admit I could have saved some money by getting a M10-P Safari.  Surprisingly (at least to me), PopFlash is offering them at a lower cost than the black ones!  I just wasn't quite ready to go green.  

[jonoslack]

3 hours ago, Paul925 said:

As to the camera?  Well, the first time I fired the shutter, I must admit that I actually said "Oh my"--it is just that quiet.  in fact, it was the shutter I had hoped for with my M240 and then M10.  So,, whether you do it by upgrade, sale and repurchase, or trade, if you can make it happen the M10-P really is a nice upgrade.  

It's a funny old world isn't it. 

I actually prefer the M10 because of the louder shutter (and I've spent a lot of time with the quieter shutter in the M10-P and the M10-D) 

It's because when I'm taking pictures of people I like to engage their attention, and control their expressions by them knowing when I've taken a picture - which you can't do with the M10-P because they can't hear the shutter. 

On the other hand, I really don't believe that the shutter noise of the M10 has ever ever disturbed anyone who's attention was engaged elsewhere (critical moments in a wedding ceremony etc. etc.) 

Perfection for me would be an M with a shutter that sounded like the M10, but with a silent electronic shutter as an option.

 

[Photon42]

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34 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

It's a funny old world isn't it. 

I actually prefer the M10 because of the louder shutter (and I've spent a lot of time with the quieter shutter in the M10-P and the M10-D) 

It's because when I'm taking pictures of people I like to engage their attention, and control their expressions by them knowing when I've taken a picture - which you can't do with the M10-P because they can't hear the shutter. 

On the other hand, I really don't believe that the shutter noise of the M10 has ever ever disturbed anyone who's attention was engaged elsewhere (critical moments in a wedding ceremony etc. etc.) 

Perfection for me would be an M with a shutter that sounded like the M10, but with a silent electronic shutter as an option.

 

you can say "click", if you must ... 😉

[Paul925]

22 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

It's a funny old world isn't it. 

I actually prefer the M10 because of the louder shutter (and I've spent a lot of time with the quieter shutter in the M10-P and the M10-D) 

It's because when I'm taking pictures of people I like to engage their attention, and control their expressions by them knowing when I've taken a picture - which you can't do with the M10-P because they can't hear the shutter. 

On the other hand, I really don't believe that the shutter noise of the M10 has ever ever disturbed anyone who's attention was engaged elsewhere (critical moments in a wedding ceremony etc. etc.) 

Perfection for me would be an M with a shutter that sounded like the M10, but with a silent electronic shutter as an option.

 

Fair point!  My comments are largely based on the fact that my M's have frequently been used in church settings other than during weddings.  Perhaps it's regional but, whereas shooting weddings where most everyone expects a photographer to be around (dodging iPads and iPhones), trying to capture a speaker during other church services would sometimes garner the occasional look of disapproval.  Granted, being in church one could, of course, always ask for forgiveness.....    😉 

 I like your idea of the silent electronic shutter option--if it can be coupled with a sensor with high enough readout speed to avoid banding issues.  The Sony A9 comes to mind as a successful implementation of electronic shutter and sensor readout speed to avoid artificial light banding.  There may be others.  (I've got your Lumix S1 field report bookmarked to read in my spare time!).  

[helohe]

by the way. did anyone compare the sound of a stock M10-P with an upgraded M10? Is it exactly the same sound or did they change anything else as well?

[LBJ2]

4 hours ago, Paul925 said:

I've watched this thread from its inception, since it had been plan to upgrade my M10 to get the new shutter by, at least, yearend.  Although it worked out well for the OP, dkmoore's comments got me to take another look at the current market.  Now that the initial glut of M10 users upgrading to M10-Ps has passed, the M10 used market seems to have taken a bit of an uptick.  So, my newly revised plan was to sell my M10 for $5,000 and purchase a new one.  I couldn't find the $7,100 price anymore at Popflash but, fairly quickly, I further revised my plan when I found a Leica dealer who, for $2,500 and my M10 sent me a brand new M10-P in black. 

I was without my M10 for only a 4 days.  It would have been less, but the carrier missed the promised Friday delivery date to deliver my camera and the dealer was closed for the weekend. I was pleased with the overall deal being fairly close to what dkmoore outlined after considering that I didn't have to pay PayPal seller fees for selling my M10 (~$150USD)--and my costs of the transaction were further reduced because I got a $48 refund on my shipping fees due to the botched delivery.  

As to the camera?  Well, the first time I fired the shutter, I must admit that I actually said "Oh my"--it is just that quiet.  in fact, it was the shutter I had hoped for with my M240 and then M10.  So,, whether you do it by upgrade, sale and repurchase, or trade, if you can make it happen the M10-P really is a nice upgrade.  Downsides?  Well, I was disappointed that my Huelight profile for my M10 doesn't work and he doesn't offer one for the M10-P--yet--but, for that M10-P shutter?  I'll wait.

This is great. Congratulations! Sure got me thinking....😉

[jonoslack]

1 hour ago, Paul925 said:

Fair point!  My comments are largely based on the fact that my M's have frequently been used in church settings other than during weddings.  

Fair enough - but has anyone, ever, been disturbed by the shutter of the M10?

[Peter Kilmister]

23 minutes ago, jonoslack said:

Fair enough - but has anyone, ever, been disturbed by the shutter of the M10?

Certainly not by the M10-P shutter. Quiet as a mouse!

[01af]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jonoslack:

... has anyone, ever, been disturbed by the shutter of the M10?

Yes! Me.

[dkmoore]

3 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Fair enough - but has anyone, ever, been disturbed by the shutter of the M10?

Probably not, and I wouldn't pay more for it. Sadly, I only pay more for the looks. Although, I feel similarly about my Porsche but I enjoy the loud VROOM!

Confused....Yes!

[Paul925]

4 hours ago, jonoslack said:

Fair enough - but has anyone, ever, been disturbed by the shutter of the M10?

Actually, yes, there have been occasions. No worries now!

[budjames]

I confirmed that my converted M10P has firmware revision 2.6.5.1.

Image metadata shows the camera model as M10-P.

As before the conversion, the estimated f-stop is captured in the metadata.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[Kwesi]

17 hours ago, Paul925 said:

if you can make it happen the M10-P really is a nice upgrade.  Downsides?  Well, I was disappointed that my Huelight profile for my M10 doesn't work and he doesn't offer one for the M10-P--yet

slightly off topic but I am surprised it doesn't work, given that its the same sensor. I wonder if its a Lightroom glitch?

[james.liam]

17 hours ago, 01af said:

Anyone disturbed by the M10 shutter?

Yes! Me.  

You probably haven’t used an M9M recently...

Edited August 14, 2019 by james.liam

[low325]

10 hours ago, james.liam said:

You probably haven’t used an M9M recently...

I love the sound of the m9 shutter. But not all the time. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[budjames]

On 8/13/2019 at 12:50 PM, Paul925 said:

I've watched this thread from its inception, since it had been plan to upgrade my M10 to get the new shutter by, at least, yearend.  Although it worked out well for the OP, dkmoore's comments got me to take another look at the current market.  Now that the initial glut of M10 users upgrading to M10-Ps has passed, the M10 used market seems to have taken a bit of an uptick.  So, my newly revised plan was to sell my M10 for $5,000 and purchase a new one.  I couldn't find the $7,100 price anymore at Popflash but, fairly quickly, I further revised my plan when I found a Leica dealer who, for $2,500 and my M10 sent me a brand new M10-P in black. 

I was without my M10 for only a 4 days.  It would have been less, but the carrier missed the promised Friday delivery date to deliver my camera and the dealer was closed for the weekend. I was pleased with the overall deal being fairly close to what dkmoore outlined after considering that I didn't have to pay PayPal seller fees for selling my M10 (~$150USD)--and my costs of the transaction were further reduced because I got a $48 refund on my shipping fees due to the botched delivery.  

As to the camera?  Well, the first time I fired the shutter, I must admit that I actually said "Oh my"--it is just that quiet.  in fact, it was the shutter I had hoped for with my M240 and then M10.  So,, whether you do it by upgrade, sale and repurchase, or trade, if you can make it happen the M10-P really is a nice upgrade.  Downsides?  Well, I was disappointed that my Huelight profile for my M10 doesn't work and he doesn't offer one for the M10-P--yet--but, for that M10-P shutter?  I'll wait.

I would take that deal to trade my other M10 + $2,500 for a new M10-P too. Would you mind sharing the Leica dealer so that I can contact them.

The offer from B&H Photo and Adorama were less favorable.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.