Leica M10 to M10-P Conversion

[Matlock]

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10 hours ago, budjames said:

For the price of an M10, I can buy 20 dogs. 😂

Before I get attacked by animal activists, our 15-1/2 year old Cocker Spaniel is priceless!

Regards,

Bud James

 

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

I feel the same about our German Shepherd and Black Labrador, they are priceless. However they don't take very good photos and my M10-D doesn't leave hair all over the back seat. 😊

[Chaemono]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb LBJ2:

Looking forward to reading about your adventure and comparison once you get your M10-P back. I've been thinking about the same. 

From a practical point of view, the conversion is only worth it if one uses the Visoflex a lot and/or shoots in quite places like churches, theaters, museums. For street, the quieter shutter can matter if people are standing close to one. The harsher M10 noise is noticeable then, the M10-P damped shutter is not.

In any case, expect people who are more easily disturbed by a higher sensory input (SPS) to be enthralled by the more pleasant M10-P shutter sound. For those the money to do the conversion is well spent.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Chaemono

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[budjames]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

From a practical point of view, the conversion is only worth it if one uses the Visoflex a lot and/or shoots in quite places like churches, theaters, museums. For street, the quieter shutter can matter if people are standing close to one. The harsher M10 noise is noticeable then, the M10-P damped shutter is not.

In any case, expect people who are more easily disturbed by a higher sensory input (SPS) to be enthralled by the more pleasant M10-P shutter sound. For those the money to do the conversion is well spent.

Yeah, all of that.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[Chaemono]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb budjames:

Yeah, all of that.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

The percentage of people with pronounced SPS is understandably higher in the photography community than in the general population. The conversion program is a blessing for them. Very considerate of Leica to offer it. Plus, it pays. 😁

[budjames]

There is no economic justification for the M10 P conversion, but, as I stated in my initial post, I dinged the top of my first M10. I purchased this camera in November 2017 so the two year warranty will expire this November. The quote to replace the dinged top plate was about $1,000, therefore, getting the M10P with new top plate, the benefits of the upgrade and a new one year warranty was worth the cost to me.

I have no plan to upgrade my other M10. We'll see if I change my mind after shooting the M10 P converted one after I get it back, hopefully, in mid-July.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.

[happymac]

The conversion makes no sense at all.

Yesterday I visited Sony's product presentation at a Munich camera store. My girl friend was looking for a replacement of her heavy Canon 5D Mkii. Considering the needs combined with a 200 EUR cash back e.g. a Sony α7R III provides

• noiseless electronic shutter (optional)
• touchscreen functionality
• spirit level
• 24 months warranty
• and lots of more

It costs less than 3.000 EUR.

• M10 (6.850 EUR) + Upgrade (3.000 EUR) = M10-P (9.850 EUR) = 1 camera
• M10 (6.850 EUR) + Sony α7R III (2.900 EUR) + Adapter Leica to Sony (~100 EUR) = M10 + Sony α7R III (9.850 EUR) = 2 cameras 

At the end you can use the best of both worlds.

[Chaemono]

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vor 1 Stunde schrieb budjames:

There is no economic justification for the M10 P conversion, but, as I stated in my initial post, I dinged the top of my first M10. I purchased this camera in November 2017 so the two year warranty will expire this November. The quote to replace the dinged top plate was about $1,000, therefore, getting the M10P with new top plate, the benefits of the upgrade and a new one year warranty was worth the cost to me.

Thanks for clarifying. I traded in my used M10, a used 90 Summicron-M, and paid €500 on top to get a new M10-P. And my M10 didn't fly off the backseat of my car during a breaking manoeuvre. 😁

vor 1 Stunde schrieb budjames:

I have no plan to upgrade my other M10. We'll see if I change my mind after shooting the M10 P converted one after I get it back, hopefully, in mid-July.

Let's see. Once you have shot the M10 and the M10-P side by side for a while, the louder shutter noise of the former could start to drive you nuts. 😂

I used the M10-P at a museum this weekend. I was often standing right behind people shooting away. I thought at some point somebody would turn around and give me αν annoyed look. But nothing, as if I wasn't there. They couldn't hear me, of course. 😁

vor 19 Minuten schrieb happymac:

 

• M10 (6.850 EUR) + Sony α7R III (2.900 EUR) + Adapter Leica to Sony (~100 EUR) = M10 + Sony α7R III (9.850 EUR) = 2 cameras 

At the end you can use the best of both worlds.

The best of both worlds in my book includes an M10 with a beautifully damped shutter and I can't see how your algebra equation results in that. There must be some flaw in it. If you're alluding to the electronic shutter of the α7R III, it would have affected the bokeh of the 50 Noctilux I was using at the museum. 

[indergaard]

Here in Norway it would cost less to just sell the M10 on the used market or use it as a trade-in at a dealer and buy a new M10-P than to pay for the conversion. This also means less waiting time as M10-P's are in stock 🙂 The upgrade program makes no sense at all.

Edited May 26, 2019 by indergaard

[LBJ2]

3 hours ago, happymac said:

The conversion makes no sense at all.

Yesterday I visited Sony's product presentation at a Munich camera store. My girl friend was looking for a replacement of her heavy Canon 5D Mkii. Considering the needs combined with a 200 EUR cash back e.g. a Sony α7R III provides

• noiseless electronic shutter (optional)
• touchscreen functionality
• spirit level
• 24 months warranty
• and lots of more

It costs less than 3.000 EUR.

• M10 (6.850 EUR) + Upgrade (3.000 EUR) = M10-P (9.850 EUR) = 1 camera
• M10 (6.850 EUR) + Sony α7R III (2.900 EUR) + Adapter Leica to Sony (~100 EUR) = M10 + Sony α7R III (9.850 EUR) = 2 cameras 

At the end you can use the best of both worlds.

3

This is how I roll. I agree. Best of both worlds and two very unique and complementary shooting experiences and tools. The very good thing about Leica prices is they FORCE me to make Leica purchasing decisions very carefully and very slowly. The M10 is already such a great Rangefinder, I can wait some time for the right financial opportunity to come along. Personally, I have a few questions about the M10-P conversion program and waiting to hear back from OP and other people's experiences. For, instance, I would not be keen to allow Leica to keep the old very valuable M10 parts unless they gave me a significant credit toward the conversion price. Or some other form of payment. 

Also, when might the next gen M camera come along? I'm just learning the Leica way with all these intermediary features added to base M10 but not sure when to expect a new model and wouldn't want to go with the M10-P or the conversion if the next gen is on the horizon. As they say First World problems for sure. 

[Peter Kilmister]

IIRC, M10 came out in 2017, M10-P in 2018. Expect a new M (M11?) in 2020 and the M-P version in 2022.

Pure speculation of course. 

[LBJ2]

11 hours ago, Chaemono said:

From a practical point of view, the conversion is only worth it if one uses the Visoflex a lot and/or shoots in quite places like churches, theaters, museums. For street, the quieter shutter can matter if people are standing close to one. The harsher M10 noise is noticeable then, the M10-P damped shutter is not.

In any case, expect people who are more easily disturbed by a higher sensory input (SPS) to be enthralled by the more pleasant M10-P shutter sound. For those the money to do the conversion is well spent.

My first silent shooting experience started with the Sony A9-- its silent shutter tech is Excellent. Then for me came the A7r3 and it too has a very good silent shutter but not on par with the A9. Working with a silent shutter or in the case of the M10-P near-silent has its benefits/advantages. But maybe one of those things IMO you just have to try to believe. It's a true game-changer in some scenarios from my experience. 

[Jeff S]

32 minutes ago, Peter Kilmister said:

IIRC, M10 came out in 2017, M10-P in 2018. Expect a new M (M11?) in 2020 and the M-P version in 2022.

Pure speculation of course. 

The recent cycle for M (and S and SL) has been 4 years.

Jeff

[Chaemono]

vor 51 Minuten schrieb LBJ2:

My first silent shooting experience started with the Sony A9-- its silent shutter tech is Excellent. Then for me came the A7r3 and it too has a very good silent shutter but not on par with the A9. Working with a silent shutter or in the case of the M10-P near-silent has its benefits/advantages. But maybe one of those things IMO you just have to try to believe. It's a true game-changer in some scenarios from my experience. 

Sure, but see the two links below for EFCS or silent shutter limitations on the Sonys. One author concludes:

1. Do not use EFCS or silent shutter with shutter speeds faster than 1/500s

2. Be careful when using the silent shutter under artifical light, take a few test shots first and check for banding

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/

https://petapixel.com/2018/12/07/psa-electronic-front-curtain-shutter-may-be-quietly-hurting-your-bokeh/

[happymac]

For bokeh I can still use my M10. 😀

Believe me: The conversion makes no sense at all...

[Chaemono]

Why should I believe you? I have a M10-P and a Sony α7R III. 😀

[happymac]

So you are a believer – believe or not. 😀

[Chaemono]

vor 50 Minuten schrieb happymac:

So you are a believer 

Yes, in the M10-P. 😀 

[LBJ2]

4 hours ago, Chaemono said:

Sure, but see the two links below for EFCS or silent shutter limitations on the Sonys. One author concludes:

1. Do not use EFCS or silent shutter with shutter speeds faster than 1/500s

2. Be careful when using the silent shutter under artifical light, take a few test shots first and check for banding

https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/

https://petapixel.com/2018/12/07/psa-electronic-front-curtain-shutter-may-be-quietly-hurting-your-bokeh/

The first reference url was posted in 2016 long before the A9 and A7r3 silent shutter technology. 

As I commented, the A9 has superior silent shutter tech to the A7r3. I shoot the A9 in silent mode with confidence. I’ve owned since day one and use extensively. I’ve not encountered any LED lighting issues/banding. But I do know some LED lighting frequencies may cause banding, something I usually check for. With that said Absolutely use the A9 in silent mode with confidence all the way up to 1/8000. 

On a completely separate topic, the second referenced url, aka Mechanical shutter, Yes, the EFCS setting on Sony mirrorless cameras can have a very slight effect on smooth Bokeh if turned on when using higher shutter speeds. Most Sony photogs know to turn off Electronic First Camera Shutter when planning to use Sony cameras in mechanical shutter mode at higher shutter speeds. Otherwise, use Silent Shutter on the A9 or A7r3 to avoid that effect altogether.

Back to the M10 conversion to M10-P program...and one of my other questions. Has anyone noticed any shutter vibration effect with the M10-P? I’ve read a few comments about actual shutter vibrations felt while the shutter closes on the M10-P,  but has anyone noticed any vibration effects on an image?

 

Edited May 26, 2019 by LBJ2

[LBJ2]

4 hours ago, happymac said:

For bokeh I can still use my M10. 😀

Believe me: The conversion makes no sense at all...

The conversion price is a tough one for sure. I’ve been looking up one side and down the other to justify. Even put together my own scenario based proforma. LOL. If I were not so happy with my M10 I might actually worry about it. 🤪 

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[budjames]

21 hours ago, happymac said:

The conversion makes no sense at all.

Yesterday I visited Sony's product presentation at a Munich camera store. My girl friend was looking for a replacement of her heavy Canon 5D Mkii. Considering the needs combined with a 200 EUR cash back e.g. a Sony α7R III provides

• noiseless electronic shutter (optional)
• touchscreen functionality
• spirit level
• 24 months warranty
• and lots of more

It costs less than 3.000 EUR.

• M10 (6.850 EUR) + Upgrade (3.000 EUR) = M10-P (9.850 EUR) = 1 camera
• M10 (6.850 EUR) + Sony α7R III (2.900 EUR) + Adapter Leica to Sony (~100 EUR) = M10 + Sony α7R III (9.850 EUR) = 2 cameras 

At the end you can use the best of both worlds.

I can't attest to the image quality of using Leica M lenses on a Sony body, but every review that I have read suggests that the IQ is not as good as using the lenses on an M10 body. Soft corners and smeared details are a few of the items that hear affecting the IQ. 

Buy one, cry once, I say when acquiring Leica gear.

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography or on Instagram at www.instagram.com/budjamesphoto.