28mm lens for M8, it would be (21x1.33 = 27.93)

[Dopaco]

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.

Hi, I would like a good angle for my M8.
I thought that with 28 mm it could be enough, so for the M8 cut (1.33), I would have to buy 21 mm. (21x1.33 = 27.93).
It is not necessary for the lens to be Leica; it would raise prices, maybe,
a voigtlander or similar, could be enough.

What lens do you recommend? ..

What frame image would you see in the M8 viewer? ..

Once again I await your wise advice.

a greeting

Edited May 22, 2019 by Dopaco
Comprender mejor

[silverchrome]

1 hour ago, Dopaco said:

.

Hi, I would like a good angle for my M8.
I thought that with 28 mm it could be enough, so for the M8 cut (1.33), I would have to buy 21 mm. (21x1.33 = 27.93).
It is not necessary for the lens to be Leica; it would raise prices, maybe,
a voigtlander or similar, could be enough.

What lens do you recommend? ..

What frame image would you see in the M8 viewer? ..

Once again I await your wise advice.

a greeting

The widest frame line on the M8 is 24mm, so if you buy a 21mm, you will probably need to get an external viewfinder as well, unless you are happy to estimate viewfinder coverage.

Even the 24mm frame lines aren't ideal: they are at the very, very  edge of the viewfinder, so they're very difficult to see unless you mash the camera right up against your face.  If you wear glasses, I doubt you will even see the 24mm frame lines.  

I now use a 28mm on my M8, and it is a much more pleasant experience as far as the frame lines are concerned.  However, I still think the frame lines are too close to the edge of the VF.  

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[a.noctilux]

I've used on my M8 since 2007 some 21mm that I used for film.

Elmarit-M 2.8/21 asph. is the best then.

I used also Olympus OM Zuiko 2/21mm not as good as Leica of course.

this 2/21 on Kodachrome 64 was mendatory, as here inside a "bus", North Thailand, some decades ago

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Not so bad for 2/21mm lens (I used the 21mm viewfinder, on film M, then)

...

On M8, 21mm lens use ...

At first with the viewfinder for 28mm, but later on, as I know the coverage of framing (28mm field with 21mm lens),

I didn't use the viewfinder (28mm) anymore = framing was accurate enough for my use of the M8 own viewfinder.

[farnz]

I've used a 21/2.8 Kobalux on my M8 for years primarily for infra-red but it's a good lens in its own right particularly on the M8 because the crop factor helps 'enlarge' the Kobalux's sweet spot.  The same Kobalux lense are also sold under the brand names Avenon and Pasoptic.  They are excellent value for money.

Pete.

[Dopaco]

Thank you all for responding so fast.
I had planned to acquire a digital Leica M with full format and forget about the factor (1.33), but the only Leica M (full format) that fits my budget is the M9. I am afraid of the failure of sensor corrosion. Also, my M8 does not give problems and for now it works well.

M 240 seems like a good option, but its price is still high.

At this moment I am looking at objectives and especially some of those you name.

In the manual of M8 page 103 (Spanish) the tables illustrated are the following and with the cutout (1.33) its equivalent.

Correct me if I'm not right.

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[01af]

You're right—a 21 mm lens on the Leica M8 has the same angle-of-view as a 28 mm lens on a 35-mm-format camera. But in order to use it properly, you'd need an accessory viewfinder which is rather awkward to use. So I'd recommend to content yourself with a 24 mm lens (which on the M8 is equivalent to 32 mm on a 35-mm-format camera). The angle-of-view is only slightly narrower, and it's much more comfortable to use due to the 24-mm frame lines in the M8's regular viewfinder; no additional accessory finder required.

If a used Elmarit-M 24 mm 1:2.8 Asph or Elmar-M 24 mm 1:3.8 Asph don't fit your budget then I'd suggest a Voigtländer Snapshot-Skopar 25 mm 1:4 ... 25 mm is close enough to 24 mm. The Zeiss Biogon 25 mm 1:2.8 ZM also is a very nice lens.

Edited May 22, 2019 by 01af

[Jeff S]

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1 hour ago, Dopaco said:

 

In the manual of M8 page 103 (Spanish) the tables illustrated are the following and with the cutout (1.33) its equivalent.

Correct me if I'm not right.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

You probably know this, but to be clear, the frame lines are already cropped for the narrower field of view; you don’t need to compensate when framing.  So if you mount a 24mm lens, the 24mm frame lines will appear, while the actual FOV will be roughly equivalent to 32mm.  

Also, the M8 frame lines are optimized for subjects at a distance of .7m (unless they were optionally upgraded to 2m).The M9 lines are most accurate at 1m, while the M8.2, M240 and M10 lines are set for 2m. M framing isn’t precise generally, but the lines are more accurate either at closer or farther distances, depending on the camera.

The widest lens I used on my M8.2 was 28mm, so I can’t comment on the use of a 21mm lens.  If you’re close to a dealer, you might want to check it out to see how it works for you.  And remember that you have a preview lever to bring up alternate framing options for use with different lenses.

Jeff

Edited May 22, 2019 by Jeff S

[farnz]

50 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

the 24mm frame lines will appear (automatically if coded)

Jeff

My apologies if I've misunderstood what you wrote but 6-bit coding has nothing to do with which set of frame lines are shown in the viewfinder.  That's determined by the lens mount.

Pete.

[Jeff S]

1 minute ago, farnz said:

Jeff

My apologies if I've misunderstood what you wrote but 6-bit coding has nothing to do with which set of frame lines are shown in the viewfinder.  That's determined by the lens mount.

Pete.

My bad...brain fart.  Thanks, I’ll edit.

Jeff

[Dopaco]

Gracias a todos por visitar y comentar.

Creo que con el tiempo voy a apostar por el M240, que pujar por las subastas de Ebay porque tenían un precio atractivo, pero al final, cuando hay poco tiempo para terminar la subasta, empiezan a subir las ofertas y que ya escapar . . . . . presupuesto.

Sigo mirando los objetivos:
este, su precio se ajusta, pero a primera vista parece un poco grande, eso me gusta menos. ¿Cómo lo ven ustedes?

https://www.microgamma.com/7artisans/7artisans.php?CODI=M28F14

De segunda mano en Ebay veo esto: (€ 950).

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Según su número de serie fue fabricado en 1994.

Esta es la información dada por el vendedor:

"Lente Leica ELMARIT-M 28 mm 1: 2.8 para todos los modelos de Leica M hasta las cámaras digitales Leica-M, número de serie 3671419 - aquí la última versión IV antes de modelos ASPH..
Con adaptador adecuado también es adecuado para muchas cámaras digitales modernas (Sony, Panasonic, etc.).
Condición: mientras tanto y 25 años, pero prácticamente no se utiliza como externamente casi tan nueva - mirar las fotos de enfoque y el trabajo de apertura así, las hojas de apertura vean como nuevos las lentes no muestran arañazos y son claras en la vista.. . con un poco (como todos los viejos lentes tienen) neblina / partículas dentro de la cual no es visible en la foto final es difícil de demostrar y eclipsa a la hora de fotografiar, pero lo probé -. ver última foto se incluye la cubierta del objetivo original con la tapa y la parte trasera Una funda de cuero Leica viene gratis.
Se sabe que el Elmarit-M 28 mm tiene un excelente rendimiento de imagen con alto contraste y creación de detalles muy finos. Venta sin garantía, artículo fotos son parte de la descripción. Envío en Alemania y la UE con DHL. La economía mundial registra el envío ".

Lo siento por ser tan pesado, pero estoy un poco confundido y sin experiencia.
¿Qué consejo me puedes dar?
¿Cuál de los 2 deberías comprar?
O mejor otro? ..

 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Dopaco

[Dopaco]

🙏  I'm sorry, I'm sorry ... I think the Google translator has not translated my Spanish into English.

[farnz]

No, desafortunadamente.🤔  Es en Espanyol.

Pedro.

Edited May 23, 2019 by farnz

[Dopaco]

Haber if I can fix it by duplicating the message:

Thank you all for visiting and commenting.

I think that over time I'm going to bet on the M240, that I bid on the Ebay auctions because they had an attractive price, but in the end, when there is little time to finish the auction, the bids begin to rise and we already escape. . . . . budget.

I keep looking at the objectives:
This, its price fits, but at first glance it seems a little big, I like that less. How do you see it?

https://www.microgamma.com/7artisans/7artisans.php?CODI=M28F14

Second hand on Ebay I see this: (€ 950).

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According to its serial number it was manufactured in 1994.

This is the information given by the seller:

"Leica ELMARIT-M lens 28 mm 1: 2.8 for all Leica M models up to Leica-M digital cameras, serial number 3671419 - here the latest version IV before ASPH models ..
With suitable adapter it is also suitable for many modern digital cameras (Sony, Panasonic, etc.).
Condition: meanwhile and 25 years, but practically not used as externally almost as new - look at the focus photos and the opening work like this, the opening sheets look like new the lenses do not show scratches and are clear on sight. . with a little (as all old lenses have) fog / particles inside of which is not visible in the final photo is difficult to demonstrate and eclipses when it comes to photographing, but I tried it -. see last photo includes the original lens cover with the lid and the back A Leica leather case comes free.
It is known that the Elmarit-M 28 mm has an excellent image performance with high contrast and creation of very fine details. Sale without warranty, article photos are part of the description. Shipping in Germany and the EU with DHL. The world economy registers the shipment ".

I'm sorry for being so heavy, but I'm a little confused and inexperienced.
What advice can you give me?
Which of the 2 should you buy?
Or better another? ..

[farnz]

They are two very different lenses, Dopaco and I have no knowledge of the 7Artisans lens.

The 28/2.8 Elmarit v4 is a very good lens although the description given ("It is known that the Elmarit-M 28 mm has an excellent image performance with high contrast and creation of very fine details.") appears to be more appropriate for the 28/2.8 Elmarit asph v5 lens.

The v4 Elmarit that's advertised was designed by Walter Mandler and therefore has lower contrast than the modern aspherical lenses but excellent acutance (resolution of fine detail) and many of us prefer our pictures to look like that rather than the biting sharpness of the modern lenses.  It's a matter of taste.  The build quality of the v4 Elmarity is excellent and sturdy and, from the picture that one looks to be in good condition.

Pete.

[Dopaco]

Thanks Pete, the 28 / 2.8 Elmarit v4, it looks good and is robust, I probably buy it, I'm seeing another with the same characteristics and at a better price.
I think that for my M8, it will be a good lens, although the conversion leaves it at 37 mm.

[lct]

If you need a wide angle lens, 28mm won't do it on the M8 unless you're happy with the 28x1.33 = 37mm field of view, in which case the Elmarit-M 28/2.8 v4 can be recommended indeed. It is not a Mandler lens (sorry Pete) and i have no experience with it but it has an excellent reputation. 

[farnz]

2 hours ago, lct said:

It is not a Mandler lens (sorry Pete)

Thank you for the correction, LCT.  I know that the version II and version III 28/2.8 Elmarits were both designed by Mandler and since some version IV lenses were produced in Canada I assumed that they were variants of the version III.  On checking I discover that the version IV was designed in Solms so it cannot have been a Mandler design (even though it 'draws' like a Mandler lens).

Pete.

[Dopaco]

If I buy the Elmarit lens 28, 2.8, the frame that I will see in the M8 will be:
24mm + 35mm or 28mm + 90mm?

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[farnz]

The 28/2.8 Elmarit will bring up the 28-90 frame lines.  But remember that Leica adjusted the M8's frame lines to correct for the 1.33x crop factor.  So if you use an external 28 mm viewfinder you'll see more of the scene than the M8's viewfinder is showing you.

Pete.

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[Jeff S]

And it’s the built in crop on the M8 that prompts the 24/35 frame line pairing. Typically the 35 is paired with the 135 on ‘full frame’ digital Ms.

But as I noted above, you don’t have to think about the crop.  A 28 remains a 28, a 90 is a 90, etc. The field of view, however, is automatically reduced to accommodate the smaller sensor. Essentially, you get to use the center ‘sweet spot’ of each lens (although some prefer other Ms to use the lens as designed edge to edge).

The frame preview lever will bring up alternate frame lines so that you can learn to view alternative framing as if another lens was mounted.

Jeff

Edited May 26, 2019 by Jeff S